Carnage Discussion 1.2

[Masterkiller]

We are currently looking for a compendium writer for Carnage. If you are interested, please contact us!

The previous thread has become outdated. Please use this thread for Carnage discussion post Update 1.2.

[Qed]

The coming of the combat log makes picking apart mechanics much easier:

That said, (2/2) Combat Trance and Opportune Attack should have _exactly_ the same proc conditions, right? Consider this:

http://www.torparse.com/l/7342

In the log, I just alternate strike and blade rush for 5 minutes. Combat trance refreshes religiously every time it expires, but opportune attack will remain unprocced even though several ataru strikes occur. Do ataru strikes from blade rush not produce opportune attack. Does blade rush just self-consume them without the opportune attack ever appearing in the combat log? Is there some internal cooldown that I'm forgetting?

Edit: Or, it's a goddamn typo, and we just use the Marauder's number of 15/30% instead of the 50/100% that it lists for Sentinels.

[tkawika]

I might have missed a post concerning this and I apologize if this is redundant. Is this still being worked on? " Carnage Compendium is in the works! Come back soon for full Carnage compendium."

After the great work on the Watchmen Compendium, I was hoping for some love with the Carnage/Combat Spec.

[Tumri]

Unfortunately I think Annihilation's dominance is keeping people from showing any interest in Carnage. Even if Carnage was comparable DPS(which is isn't) it's missing the incredible utility of Annihilation's shorter interrupt cooldown as well as the crazy healing from Hungering and Berserk. There are fights where the amount of healing done by an Annihilation Marauder will outpace the amount of damage he/she takes making him a HELP to the healers as opposed to a heal sink like a Carnage Marauder.

I do hope that someone like LagunaD takes the time to create a compendium though. I have a feeling Bioware will show Carnage more love in the future and we'll be using it in raids at some point.

[slathe33]

I feel 1.2 evened up carnage and annihilation as far a dps goes. The healing aspect may very well still put it over the top. I have done multiple pulls on the Toth fight using 2 Marauder, one is Carnage and the other is Annihilation both were close on dps on almost ever pull. I say almost because one or the other would die. The Annihilation marauder didn't seem to have anymore survibablity than the other. If he was self healing its wasted healing since we use purple goo to heal each side, effectivily healing up to 8 people. The Carnage maurader on average was requiring more healing but that was because he moves with Toth absorbing more aoes instead of sitting in the purple goo. I have done multiple test dummy fights now and I have gotten my sustained dps up to 1.4k with only the stance buff on. I haven't seen numbers for "proper" played Annihilation, so what are they supposed to be coming in at? The increase interrupt fact is no longer required, since they no longer cost a GCD for any class. So anyone can hit their interrupt without the fear of having to wait a GCD to cast a heal or taunt.

So my question is what are the dummies showing Annihilation's dps to be currently? I have no problem switching specs if it is that much different. However in almost all the games I have played a none ranged DOT class always lost to a direct dps class due to mob switches or having to run out to avoid an aoe. So that left only the DoT classes winning on Tank and spank fights. Currently there are a few of these in the game so this may very well be why no one is even considering carnage. Though this will change as we can see from the current game build.

Slathe
Carnage Marauder
The Ebon Hawk (server)

[Hibbo]

After i have stumbled over various discussions and tests about "armor redution debuffs stacking additively" I`m wondering if Gore is still usefull in a 16-man Raid environment where 5 x armor reduction debuffs are present.

From what I have seen now, armor reduction debuffs can stack up to 100% base armor reduction. So the interesting question I`m thinking about is, do operation bosses only have base armor (it defenite looks like) where Gore will be useless or do they have some sort of effective armor where the 100% penetration would be usefull.

And on the other hand does Gore only penetrate base armor, or like many people have mentioned when they say "with Gore i can melt even through Tanks" it indeed does penetrate effective armor.


http://code.google.com/p/simulationcraft...tail?id=30
http://mmo-mechanics.com/swtor/forums/Th...ons?page=5
http://mmo-mechanics.com/swtor/forums/Th...3#pid17093

[Masterkiller]

(04-22-2012 04:41 AM)tkawika Wrote:  I might have missed a post concerning this and I apologize if this is redundant. Is this still being worked on? " Carnage Compendium is in the works! Come back soon for full Carnage compendium."

The Carnage compendium has been orphaned, we are currently seeking a compendium writer for Carnage.

[Spren]

Having never played as Carnage even once, can someone enlighten me on the rotation?

[Ryfe]

There really isn't a "rotation" so much as a priority system. I guess it could be somewhat summed up as follows:

Battering Assault > Gore > Force Scream > Ravage > Massacre

The idea is to only use Ravage when Battering Assault is on cooldown (as it costs no rage, will use 3 seconds of Battering Assault's cooldown, and is the most damage we can output in 3 seconds without Berserk running) and use Gore before Ravage when possible (for the armor pen). It is also a good idea to Massacre before a Ravage for the 30% increased Ataru proc chance. You also ONLY want to use Force Scream when Blood Frenzy is applied (following an Ataru proc) so it is guaranteed to crit.

*Your OPENING NON-BERSERK "rotation" might look something like this:
Force Charge -> Battering Assault -> Massacre -> Gore -> Force Scream -> Ravage

This gets Battering Assault on CD early, Massacre guarantees an Ataru proc for the Force Scream, Gore drops target armor for Ravage, and Ravage eats up 3 seconds of the Battering Assault CD for free. Ravage also still gets the tail end of the 30% proc chance from Massacre's Araru proc.

When Berserk is up things change a little. The idea here is to Gore (for obvious armor reduction), keep Battering Assault and Force Scream on cooldown, and spam as many Massacres as time will allow. It is also wise to attempt full rage when closing on 30 fury. That is what the Battering Assault at the beginning of the following rotation is for, but if it is on cooldown, a few right clicks would suffice.

*Your BERSERK "rotation" might look something like this:
Battering Assault -> Berserk (use relic) -> Gore -> Massacre (skip if Blood Frenzy is already up) -> Force Scream (when off CD) -> Massacre x5+

**NOTE: I am not sure about the changes to Ravage or how Gore works in conjunction with other armor debuffs. Until I see anything suggesting otherwise, this is the "rotation" I have found to be the most effective.

[Qed]

I think the other important thing you can do to help with your rotation is to float a some rage except after gore. It's always a shame to waste gore on assault/strike, and the easiest way to avoid this is to keep your rage/focus above 6 when the gore debuff is not up.

As always, if you'd like to play with rotations directly, feel free to poke at my combat/watchman simulators. They have been written so that it's really easy to implement any logic you like for dps rotations.