Annihilation | Watchmen Discussion

[Slugfest]

Hello all, also a long time lurker here but finally posting. I'm closing in on 200 daily comms again and I'm really torn between which black hole/campaign relic to pick up, power activation or proc for my watchman sentinel. Does anyone have any solid number differences between them? Activation seems to favor controlled burst while proc seems to favor overall dps without having to manage another button to press.

Any thoughts/opinions are appreciated!

[Qed]

I think the general consensus has been that the proccy trinkets are better dps overall. On the other hand, the clicky trinkets aren't _so_ far behind, and there are important burst phases in various ops (Kephess bombadiers, SoA phase 3, Heavy Fabricator come to mind).

When I get some free time, I can include the trinkets in my Watchman simulator to check actual numbers, though I don't have a '20 second burst' calculation there either.

[Coaltrain]

As Annihilation, I was thinking the proc trinket that does internal damage would be sufficient, correct? But, what about if you're Carnage? What proc type damaging relic would you take?

[Qed]

The math should be pretty easy on that. Precision Slash is high on the Combat priority list so the uptime will be close to 6/15. I swear that something in the patch notes said that multiple sunder armor stacks don't contribute anymore, so assuming a 1-stack sundered ops boss takes 69% of listed damage:

Kinetic/Energy damage:
(6/15)*246 + (9/15)*246*.69 = 200.2

Internal damage:
184 = 184.

Combat/Carnage is better off with the Kinetic/Energy relic.

[Coaltrain]

So for Annihilation/Watchmen spec, will the kinetic proc relic still be better?

[Mordu]

(04-21-2012 09:21 AM)Coaltrain Wrote:  So for Annihilation/Watchmen spec, will the kinetic proc relic still be better?

Should be pretty straight forward. From Qed's post:

(04-21-2012 06:55 AM)Qed Wrote:  Kinetic/Energy damage:
(6/15)*246 + (9/15)*246*.69 = 200.2

As Annihilation/Watchmen you don't have Gore, so it's just:

Kinetic/Energy damage:
246*.69 = 169.74

Internal/Elemental damage:
184 = 184

So Anni/Watch is better off with Internal or Elemental.

[defendi]

What kind of DPS are you all getting vs the combat dummies? I'd like to benchmark myself. We did the council fight on EV Sunday and I only finished with 1.4 seconds to spare.

Bob

[Tumri]

(04-21-2012 05:15 PM)Mordu Wrote:  

(04-21-2012 09:21 AM)Coaltrain Wrote:  So for Annihilation/Watchmen spec, will the kinetic proc relic still be better?

Should be pretty straight forward. From Qed's post:

(04-21-2012 06:55 AM)Qed Wrote:  Kinetic/Energy damage:
(6/15)*246 + (9/15)*246*.69 = 200.2

As Annihilation/Watchmen you don't have Gore, so it's just:

Kinetic/Energy damage:
246*.69 = 169.74

Internal/Elemental damage:
184 = 184

So Anni/Watch is better off with Internal or Elemental.

No.

With armor debuffs still stacking the Energy/Kinetic trinkets will be far better than the Elemental/Internal alternatives.

The only reason to take the Elemental/Internal damage trinkets would be on 8-mans where for some crazy reason you have only one armor debuff.

In a 16M raid you're likely to have 5x armor debuffs and 100% armor penetration the entire fight.

[slathe33]

I feel 1.2 evened up carnage and annihilation as far a dps goes. The healing aspect may very well still put it over the top. I have done multiple pulls on the Toth fight using 2 Marauder, one is Carnage and the other is Annihilation both were close on dps on almost ever pull. I say almost because one or the other would die. The Annihilation marauder didn't seem to have anymore survibablity than the other. If he was self healing its wasted healing since we use purple goo to heal each side, effectivily healing up to 8 people. The Carnage maurader on average was requiring more healing but that was because he moves with Toth absorbing more aoes instead of sitting in the purple goo. I have done multiple test dummy fights now and I have gotten my sustained dps up to 1.4k with only the stance buff on. I haven't seen numbers for "proper" played Annihilation, so what are they supposed to be coming in at? The increase interrupt fact is no longer required, since they no longer cost a GCD for any class. So anyone can hit their interrupt without the fear of having to wait a GCD to cast a heal or taunt.
So my question is what are the dummies showing Annihilation's dps to be currently? I have no problem switching specs if it is that much different. However in almost all the games I have played a none ranged DOT class always lost to a direct dps class due to mob switches or having to run out to avoid an aoe. So that left only the DoT classes winning on Tank and spank fights. Currently there are a few of these in the game so this may very well be why no one is even considering carnage. Though this will change as we can see from the current game build.

I posted this under the Carnage area, however since that is basically getting no love, hopefully someone can supply the numbers here.

Slathe
Carnage Marauder
The Ebon Hawk (server)

[Qed]

From both parse and sim, I find that watchman ekes out a little DPS over combat. Additionally, I have been able to get significantly closer to sim numbers on watchman over combat.

My metric has been that 1300 dps on a dummy should be enough to carry your weight in patch 1.2. You can do a lot better than that though. The higher you can get above that, the easier fights will be.

Also, Tumri there are some murmurings about how the armor reduction debuffs stack in this patch (eg: here ) I'm still not sure how the debuff stacking behaves, which is why my calculation is prefaced with the 'assuming only 1 stack applies'. I can't seem to find a definitive answer one way or the other though, so if you know for sure that they still stack, please post.