Sorcerer / Sage Healing Compendium (Updated for 1.2!)

[Kaedis]

Physics, you have to realize that there are two definitions of "force positive". The most common refers to an ability that when cast leaves you at a higher amount of Force than when you started. By this definition, any ability that you can spam for an unlimited period of time without any chance of running out of force counts as force positive. Force Lightning with Sith Efficacy is a good example of this, as you regen 24 Force during the channel and gain 24 Force from Sith Efficacy. Since Force Lightning only costs 26-30 Force (depending on skills and set bonuses), this leaves you higher on Force than you started, and thus its impossible to run out of Force casting nothing but Force Lightning (unless you interrupt FL continually).

The other definition, and the source of the contention here, refers to an ability that leaves you higher on force than you would have been had you not cast the ability at all. The only ability Sorcerers have that qualifies under this definition is Consumption. Talenting into a regen skill that requires you to cast an ability you wouldn't otherwise cast, particularly one that doesn't augment your raid role (example, a dps ability as a healer), is only useful if it fits this definition. It isn't enough for the ability to leave you higher on force than you started, it needs to leave you higher on force than you would be if you hadn't cast the ability (or any other ability) at all in order for it to be worth using in a resource-limited situation. Neither Subversion or Sith Efficacy qualify in this regard, as the maximum regen from both effects is 80% of the base cost of the ability that triggers them.

[Physics]

I understand and am most happy with the feed back and numbers given like i said in my original post just wanted some numbers and a quick back and forth on the matter .. and that was supplied Tyvm I understand my errors

[Tasten]

Hello,

I saw that gear set bonuses were mentioned but I haven't seen ant talk of what we should be using. Prior to 1.2 I was doing dual 2pc set bonuses (PVE healing and PVP healing sets) but with the change to how PVP gear is sub-par in PVE it's making me rethink thing idea. Is it still viable to do this?

Something I noticed is with that the BM PVP gear, the set bonuses don't appear to be following the armor mod like the WH gear does, so in theory you could gut the armor and put PVE mods into them and still have the PVP set bonus. Now I haven't tried this yet, so I don't know if it really works so if someone has, please let me know. I guess the main question is, is this worth doing or should I just do my 4pc PVE bonus and be done with it?

[frmorrison]

(04-27-2012 05:03 AM)Tasten Wrote:  Hello,

I saw that gear set bonuses were mentioned but I haven't seen ant talk of what we should be using. Prior to 1.2 I was doing dual 2pc set bonuses (PVE healing and PVP healing sets) but with the change to how PVP gear is sub-par in PVE it's making me rethink thing idea. Is it still viable to do this?

Something I noticed is with that the BM PVP gear, the set bonuses don't appear to be following the armor mod like the WH gear does, so in theory you could gut the armor and put PVE mods into them and still have the PVP set bonus. Now I haven't tried this yet, so I don't know if it really works so if someone has, please let me know. I guess the main question is, is this worth doing or should I just do my 4pc PVE bonus and be done with it?

You should be using the 4 set PvE bonus. The PvP bonus is only good for an extra shield a little earlier (which great in PvP, is lackluster in PvE). Note you can "gut" the PvP BM/Champ/Cent armor shell and put anything inside it to keep the PvP set bonus.

[Tasten]

(04-27-2012 10:22 AM)frmorrison Wrote:  You should be using the 4 set PvE bonus. The PvP bonus is only good for an extra shield a little earlier (which great in PvP, is lackluster in PvE). Note you can "gut" the PvP BM/Champ/Cent armor shell and put anything inside it to keep the PvP set bonus.

Thanks for the reply. Curious, why do you feel that an earlier shield isn't as good as the extra force? My assuption is that with 50 extra force you'd get 2 more heals or so in comparison to the earlier shield? Coming from a Disc Priest background shield spam was bread and butter so I tend to lean to that out of habit. Is there math somewhere that talks about the 2pc PVP ver. the 4pc PVE somewhere I can read up on?

[Kaedis]

Quote:My assuption is that with 50 extra force you'd get 2 more heals or so in comparison to the earlier shield? Coming from a Disc Priest background shield spam was bread and butter so I tend to lean to that out of habit. Is there math somewhere that talks about the 2pc PVP ver. the 4pc PVE somewhere I can read up on?

The 50 extra force also amplifies the amount of Force you gain from Consumption, easing force issues.

[masochism128]

(04-21-2012 05:33 AM)Petrus Wrote:  I do get what you're saying, but I've still got a couple issues with it.

First off, you can't time a fight to end it with 10 - 20% force, and you can't not worry about your mana. There ARE a lot of opportunities to regen mana, but only if your raid provides them. Every single one of them can be taken away by a mistake a player makes. The point is, you need to keep your force up all the time if possible, because you never know what's going to happen next.

Secondly, just a little point - Revivification actually doesn't make up much of our heals in EC (except on minesweeper) because depending on your strat it may only hit 1 or 2 people. Resurgence or Innervate are almost always my top heals - and that's casting revivification on every CD.


As far as the fact that you can heal more if you use consumption less - sure, that's true. I don't know if I agree with 300 HPS, especially since I've yet to be in a fight that requires 100% uptime on healing. Even if it's true though, again, it's not about the healing done - it's about keeping people alive and having the right tools for the job. I'd rather do 500 less HPS but always have the force I need to heal as much as I need, than do more healing but run into situations where I miss a regen phase and we have to wipe.


And any force we have is potential energy. I wouldn't call a full force bar at the end of a fight "wasted", I'd call it "utilizing our abilities". The more force we have, the longer/better we can heal for. That's a tool right there that we can't ignore. There are several bosses where at 15 seconds before the boss dies they can do massive damage - and you need that full(ish) force in case that happens.

Sorry for the late response. Let me try to explain this moar bettar.

My issue is with the comment earlier in this thread by someone to the effect of: "you should use innervate on cd and utilize every force surge proc." My point is that there are situations in which you may not want to follow that advice. It's good in general to use as many force surge procs as you can, but occasionally you will need to do burst healing. A force-positive rotation which uses Innervate on cd yeilds a relatively low hps ceiling. Our burst healing is centered around turning excess force into additional healing. Typically the most effective way to do this is to delay Innervate in favor of using higher hps abilities: usually, using more Static Barriers in a short time frame, then returning to a force-positive rotation after the danger is over. Keep in mind that Static Barrier has around twice the hpet of Innervate.

Additionally, you Can plan out, or at least get a feel for, your force usage over an entire encounter. Knowing just how much Consumption you need to use to get through a given encounter lets you maximize healing done while minimizing time and health loss from excess Consumptions. The same principle used in terms of burst healing applies here as well. Excess force can be converted into more healing over the course of the entire encounter, and the most effective way to do this is to use less Innervate and more Static Barrier. Again though, let me point out that if healing is not a limiting factor in either downing the boss or extending time till wipe on progression, then some of the effects of maximizing your total healing done will not be felt. Planning to end the fight with low force is one of those effects, but just because you don't Need to do it doesn't mean it isn't useful in intense encounters.

Finally, as a side-note, Revivification has typically been around 50% of my total healing on all four encounters in Denova HM. It's our single best heal in terms of hpet at 2 targets, and I believe best for hpf at either 2 or 3 targets, I forget which. Even in 8man I have found that using it as much as possible helps greatly. It's also another reason why planning to end with low force isn't incredibly noticeable - so much of our healing comes from Revivification that, as long as you're maximizing your Reviv usage, it makes the contribution of our other heals comparatively small.

Also, to clarify, hpet = healing per effective time = total healing done by a given ability / cast time. I didn't see this term in the OP of the thread nor in any of the posts I've read so far, but the hps and hpct values of our abilities in the OP seem weird. How exactly are these terms defined here? They seem to be being used differently than I'm used to.

[Function]

Revivication also accounts for about 80% of our over heals as well. I don't use Consumption EVERY Force Surge proc considering my own health and what's going on at the moment could make the health loss very detrimental. However, I do use it whenever I can. With that said, I'll ALWAYS use Innervate above all other heals if it's not on cooldown.

[masochism128]

Function,

Are you trying to argue something? If so, your argument would benefit from providing reasons for other people to do the same as you. If not then carry on I guess.

[Tasten]

(04-27-2012 02:15 PM)Kaedis Wrote:  The 50 extra force also amplifies the amount of Force you gain from Consumption, easing force issues.

Oh, I hadn't thought of that. Thanks!

Just a question for the OP. Would a small blurb about this topic be able to be added to the compendium for people like me? I can't imagine I'm the only one that had this question.