See new thread for 2.0 Changes - Sorcerer / Sage Healing Compendium Updated for 1.2!)

[Chubby]

Adam, wonderful write up. Thanks for you and all those that helped out for your work.

I would agree after running the new FP HM and Ops, that our ability for panic healing is shot, even using recklessness especially in the FP, I felt utterly helpless. I really seems that keeping people topped of is simple as before, but in high damage situation were just stuck with click and pray. However, I dont see us as broken, just like others have said, we really have to think smart and plan ahead. Im sure after learning more about the fight mechanics, we will easliy learn how to compensate.

[Kaedis]

Quote:Innervate - Little effect; reduces time in "channeled". improves "emergency heal" value of Innervate, but overall HPSe gain is very minimal.
Dark Heal - Heal is reduced a grand total of 0.2s (realistic), decent HPS gain. (about 300HPS)
Dark Infusion - Heal is reduced a 0.3s (realistic), highest HPS gain. (skills gains about 500HPS)

Er...I hate to be a nitpick, but mathematically speaking, all 3 of these spells gain the same percentage increase in HPCT. At 20% Alacrity, they all gain a 25% increase to their net healing per time period.

[Arulan]

(04-14-2012 10:19 AM)Adam Wrote:  

(04-14-2012 02:33 AM)Malal Wrote:  Willpower - 1865
Power - 602
Crit - 180ish
Surge - 190ish
Alacrity - 339

I have enjoyed heavy alacrity but right now deliverance is not an emergency heal, and the bit shaved off with alacrity is not amazing. Mainly now life is Bubble ==> Trance ==> AOE and consume with deliv thrown in as a filler. With the majority of our heals being trance and aoe, is alacrity worth it anymore? Im debating swapping all my alacrity enhancements for surge/power ones. I know Petrus is normally a fan of no alacrity but I am still kind of worried about changing things up.

Personally no; Alacrity isn't worth it. In my opinion even more so now that DI has such a long cast time. High Alacrity its not going to make-or-break anything. You're shaving (at maximum) 20% off of your cast time. at 400 Alacrity you've hit cap. Past 400 you're so far into diminishing returns that almost none of your skills change past that point. I do plan on expanding upon this, once i get my research rock solid.

Static Barrier - No effect (instant cast)
Resurgence - No effect (instant cast)
Revivification - No HPS gain due to mechanic on Revivification.; reduces cast time
Innervate - Little effect; reduces time in "channeled". improves "emergency heal" value of Innervate, but overall HPSe gain is very minimal.
Dark Heal - Heal is reduced a grand total of 0.2s (realistic), decent HPS gain. (about 300HPS)
Dark Infusion - Heal is reduced a 0.3s (realistic), highest HPS gain. (skills gains about 500HPS)

I find the amount of negative attribution to Alacrity a little disturbing. In your criticism of Alacrity you use HPS as a means of comparison. For one HPS is a very poor method of comparing not only skills but stats. It does provide some information, but HPCT (Healing per Cast Time) is a much better method for comparison. I assume your "HPSe" that you use in your initial post is something similar, then why not use HPSe in your post about Alacrity?

One of the first things you said (In Bold/Italic) is incorrect. It's because Dark Infusion / Deliverance has a longer cast time that makes Alacrity even more "worth it" than pre-1.2. Simply put, the longer the cast time, the more the percentage reduction of it (via Alacrity) will reduce in terms of seconds.

Imputing my stats of:

Willpower 1830
Force Power 1224
Power 704
Crit 185
Surge 195
Alacrity 339

into my spreadsheet my normalized stat weights (using HPCT) are (using my current effective healing spread between skills):

Willpower 1
Power 0.9796741
Crit 0.6449028
Surge 0.5857689
Alacrity 0.7637544

Not to mention what Kor has already stated about those three skills that do in fact benefit as much as any other from Alacrity in terms of percentage reduction to cast time.

Another brief comment I will make that I mentioned in the previous Sorc/Sage Healing Thread a couple weeks ago was what I called the two "states" of a boss. Essentially they're exist states of chaos in which the encounter is outputting "intense" damage which requires the healer(s) to "burst". The other state is that of order in which the amount of healing necessary to keep the raid alive is minimal and can usually be done while maintaining oneself force-neutral.

That said, this "burst" phase is the most important and should be, to a greater extent, but not entirely be the focus of our gearing/stat distributions. Alacrity is an excellent stat for this "burst" phase.

One argument to the contrary I can foresee is that of "1.2 has nerfed us to the point where we shouldn't focus on burst anymore, instead give that responsibility to the other healing classes". This would be the wrong mentality to approach the changes. The only significant difference between pre-1.2 and 1.2 is that now we have to be thinking proactively on most of what we do, instead of reactively. We don't have the luxury anymore to wait for the damage and then respond, we have to anticipate it and have things put in place in preparation (Static Barrier, Resurgence, Revivification, Dark Infusion stop-casting, etc.) before we're forced to respond directly with Healing Trance, Dark Infusion, Dark Heal (it does have some use now, few I'll admit, but don't count it out entirely), etc.

[Kaedis]

Ya, what is HPSe, anyway?

[Petrus]

(04-14-2012 03:07 AM)Shahryar Wrote:  Will look forward to vid.

Firebrand/Stormcaller & Toth/Zorn You can see several things in those videos - how low I get sometimes, and how I heal someone else who's at more health because I know I have time - how often I use my aoe - how I keep my tank up on Toth/Zorn, etc.

**Happy to discuss anything I did in the video, but make sure we keep it healer related, and not raid strat related, as we have forums for that.

Quote:This would be the wrong mentality to approach the changes. The only significant difference between pre-1.2 and 1.2 is that now we have to be thinking proactively on most of what we do, instead of reactively. We don't have the luxury anymore to wait for the damage and then respond, we have to anticipate it and have things put in place in preparation (Static Barrier, Resurgence, Revivification, Dark Infusion stop-casting, etc.) before we're forced to respond directly with Healing Trance, Dark Infusion, Dark Heal (it does have some use now, few I'll admit, but don't count it out entirely), etc.

I really think Adam is right on this one (if not on the specifics, at least the goal he was trying to get to) - alacrity is still our worst stat. I 100% agree with you that we have to heal proactively rather than reactively. It's about getting a hot up at the right time, an AoE down where the tank is about to run to, etc. It's using the right tools for the job, at the right time.

That said - I don't really think alacrity plays much of a part in that. Even with 20% alacrity (which at least in the current gear means you've sacrificed quite a few other stats) your DI/Innervate aren't quick enough to be emergency heals. An extra .2 or .3 seconds off a spell that's already an iffy choice in an emergency situation isn't as beneficial as pre-planning and bolstering our sustained heals.

I really think the three healing classes have different roles in encounters now, even if it's a subtle thing. We need to play to our strengths more than try to make up for our shortcomings.

That said, I think with the extra stats we have on gear we'll end up with a pretty high % of alacrity anyways, but I certainly think stacking it is probably a bad idea at this point.

Quote:Dark Heal (it does have some use now, few I'll admit, but don't count it out entirely), etc.

Would love for you to elaborate on this more. I spent about 6 hours ( 2 raid nights) on the PTS trying to work this into my rotation and I still don't really have a use for it. It's not worth it unless you have a force surge proc up for the guaranteed crit. A guaranteed crit on it heals for less than my non-crit DI. So the only time you'd use it is if you have force surge up AND you need to heal in less than 2.5 (or whatever your time is - 2.2 for me) seconds. Even still, this isn't ideal because an innervate or a static barrier can heal for more/heal quicker if either of those are available. This also uses your force surge which could be used to MUCH greater effect in the long-run by using it on an innervate, revivification, or even DI.

So basically - the only time to really use it is IF you have force surge up AND Innervate is down AND the target has a shield debuff AND you need to heal in less than 2.5ish seconds. If you have those 2.5 seconds you'll get far more value out of a DI or innervate or even a resurgence. The spell also costs more. I just don't really see this spell being usable, as the only other possible use for it would be to spam it when someone's low to try to get them up quickly - but unless they're taking very quick hits a bigger spell is still better, as the long-term impact on your force pool will be greatly effected by casting this spell.

[Arulan]

(04-14-2012 04:45 PM)Petrus Wrote:  Would love for you to elaborate on this more. I spent about 6 hours ( 2 raid nights) on the PTS trying to work this into my rotation and I still don't really have a use for it. It's not worth it unless you have a force surge proc up for the guaranteed crit. A guaranteed crit on it heals for less than my non-crit DI. So the only time you'd use it is if you have force surge up AND you need to heal in less than 2.5 (or whatever your time is - 2.2 for me) seconds. Even still, this isn't ideal because an innervate or a static barrier can heal for more/heal quicker if either of those are available. This also uses your force surge which could be used to MUCH greater effect in the long-run by using it on an innervate, revivification, or even DI.

So basically - the only time to really use it is IF you have force surge up AND Innervate is down AND the target has a shield debuff AND you need to heal in less than 2.5ish seconds. If you have those 2.5 seconds you'll get far more value out of a DI or innervate or even a resurgence. The spell also costs more. I just don't really see this spell being usable, as the only other possible use for it would be to spam it when someone's low to try to get them up quickly - but unless they're taking very quick hits a bigger spell is still better, as the long-term impact on your force pool will be greatly effected by casting this spell.

You're right and that is exactly what I meant. It's not something I'd expect to happen all the time, but that situation does occur every so often. At the very least it has a minor use, which prior to 1.2 it had much less use, if any.

As for Alacrity, obviously going up to 20% is ridiculous. I don't believe in stacking it, but by trying to achieve an equilibrium between Alacrity, Crit, and Surge in which their respective Stat Weights (normalized; HPCT) fall within close proximity to each other. At 339 it's at 10.25% and the DR hasn't quite hit it very hard when comparing Stat Weights (HPCT) to other relative Stats. If you look at my stat distribution in my previous post, I sacrificed some Crit and Surge for much higher values of Willpower, Power, and Alacrity. I already demonstrated the math via my spreadsheet on the Stat Weights (HPCT), what is your reasoning against? Statements such as, reducing the cast time by 0.2-0.3s is negligible doesn't really give useful information because I could easily say increasing crit chance by 4-6% might also be negligible. However, you have to keep in mind that crit chance, is just that, a chance, it's unpredictable (exclude our crit CD for the time being) for the most part. Say, in the time it takes said added crit chance to make a difference from the previous crit chance value, you'd have several abilities being used with shortened cast times. Not only that, with added Alacrity, given a set period of time (say 300s), you're going to have more Forcbending procs, more abilities being used, thus increased number of crits, etc. Not to mention, Forcbending increases Innervates crit chance by 25% reducing crit's value in that particular ability, and with our Crit CD (Force Potency), we can come fairly close to guaranteeing a crit when needed. I could make similar arguments with Surge as it is connected with Crit.

With all of that being said, I don't believe in stacking for the sake of stacking. Having a mix is necessary, it all depends on DR of each stat and it's Stat Weight when compared to each other. Obviously something like Power and Willpower, because they're mostly linear (Willpower's crit chance contribution isn't quite linear), they can be "stacked", given you're not sacrificing so many Stats of the others while stacking it that your overall "Stat Weight Points" is less than if not doing so. It's somewhat difficult to explain in this method that I have, mathematical analysis is much easier to demonstrate but regardless I'd like to read your reasoning. One of the questions being, why go for much more Crit and Surge past the ~200 rating point and not Alacrity? (Sometimes you will have to choose between something like Power + Alacrity to Crit + Surge, but regardless we still need to know our own "values" of Crit, Surge, and Alacrity to make a reasonable decision in special cases).

[Ebaconator]

This makes a compelling argument for power over crit and surge, and both of those over alacrity, but I still run into a roadblock: how do I do this? Endgame Force-Mystic/Master gear is alacrity-heavy (most of the enhancements are alacrity and power), and while I get I can take out these mods, I don't understand where I'm supposed to get the new ones. Do I need to go hunt down mods from other sets (smug/trooper/knight gear) and rip those out and then plug them into my robes? That seems like an awful lot of work. I'm willing to do it, of course, but am I missing something here about how best to go about this? The theorycrafting makes sense, but since we can't craft these mods, how are we supposed to get them?
On another note, a sage on my server told me he was improving his force management by putting two points into Concentration (Subversion for Sorc)and weaving some Disturbances (Lightning Strikes) into his rotation. This doesn't seem viable for me, as it's too much of a sacrifice in terms of skill points, but I was wondering if anyone has crunched the numbers on this and see how the stacks do affect force regen and management.
Thanks for the compendium overall. Great guide, and it's made me rethink how I want to play and gear my sage. Keep it up!

[frmorrison]

You have to rip the mod out of other classes's gear. For example, the Columi IA Gloves/Helm has a good Power/Surge enhancement.

Subversion is a bad tool to regen force. The Lightning Strikes cost more than the force regained. If this Sage wants to do more dps, spec into Calcify (6% more damage to some attacks).

[Kalyndria]

Petrus just wondering with the new patch, We got almost the same stats, just wondering how are u managing your force? I seem to be hitting a wall with keeping everyone up and running out of force and low HP. Not sure what im doing wrong now. Never had a force problem.

[Petrus]

(04-16-2012 12:18 PM)Kalyndria Wrote:  Petrus just wondering with the new patch, We got almost the same stats, just wondering how are u managing your force? I seem to be hitting a wall with keeping everyone up and running out of force and low HP. Not sure what im doing wrong now. Never had a force problem.

Kalyndria - this is taken from a post I made in the old archived heal thread. I'd highly recommend everyone go and read the last 3 - 4 pages as they all pertain to 1.2, consumption, and force regen. (you can find it in the "inquisitor" forum under "Archived - healing guide")

Anyways, I was trying to make a case for not putting any points into the reduced health from consumption (which I still don't do - I think it's the best choice to go 0/2) but this particular section might shed a little light on why I generally have no issues with force (although that isn't to say I can't run out of force - I just manage it so that I don't.)

Quote:Thurs: 2.8hours of raiding. 217 Consumption procs, 214 Consumptions used.
Friday: 3.1 hours of raiding. 203 Consumption Procs, 199 used.
Monday: 2.5 hours of raiding. 187 Consumption Procs, 187 used.

As you can see, almost every time force surge procs (consumption without the regen debuff) I use a consumption. This shows two things - 1. there's no issue HP wise doing this, and 2. - I still have about as much force/regen as in the last patch. Our force regen wasn't nerfed, we just can hurt ourselves with consumption.


On top of using consumption every time it's up, healing now is all about using the right spell. I cast my AoE every time it's off CD, and I always try to have a force bending up for it - that's a lot of force saved. Same for when I cast DI, but that's not always possible. I'll pop cooldowns to help me heal when otherwise I would have to start spamming DI. These situations aren't emergencies, but rather it allows me to have a larger force pool by using my force-positive spells now for when I do run into a situation when I need DIs later.

Really, it's all about playing smart - you've got to figure out what works for you, your raid, and your other healer. You also need to KNOW the mechanics. Not just be aware of, but *know*. I'll relink my vids - go check them out. You can probably learn more from them than anything I can ever type. I of course mess up in several of them - there's a lot of things I didn't do right - but you should be able to get an example of what I'm talking about. I allow myself to drop down very low sometimes, but it's because I know what's coming next, and I know that I can wait 2 seconds for my innervate to be back up, rather than using my DI before I heal myself. It makes a big difference.

Firebrand/Stormcaller & Toth/Zorn
Firebrand/Stormcaller - I position myself to be the only one on the ground, so that I take all the yellow circles and all the lightning spires. It's a lot of responsibility but it works smoother this way. All the lighting spires are predictable though, and I did a pretty bad job of moving out of them. But you can see MANY times where I drop to 5 - 10% hp. You can see how generally I prioritize other people first. You can see, many, many, many times how I use consumption when I'm already down around 25% HP, or currently taking damage. You can see many of the same things on Toth/Zorn.

I suppose you could call the way I use consumption risky or reckless - but the ONLY time I've died before the tanks in 3+ weeks of doing hard modes, is when I get 1 shot by some mechanic. It's really all about making sure you use all your consumptions, and that you know where to stand/when to heal so that you can do so.

(And again - I don't want to hijack the healing thread with my raid videos - I do truly believe you can learn more from watching them than you can ever learn from reading what I type though - so just keep any replies centered around my healing, rather than the raids/strats - though I'm happy to talk about those elsewhere.)