Engineering Sniper (Saboteur Gunslinger) Compendium

[Tibbel]

I played around with the new Calculated Pursuit on the PTS last night.

• The effect lasts 6 seconds after leaving cover, but is canceled upon re-entering cover.
• Using Overload Shot
  Overload Shot
  Imperial Agent
  
  Energy: -17
  Range: 10m
  Activation time: Instant
  Damage Type: Weapon
  Mirror: Quick Shot
  
  Blasts a target for [?] weapon damage.
  
  does not consume the effect. Multiple Overload Shots can be free during a single application of Calculated Pursuit.
• Gaining the Calculated Pursuit incurs an internal cooldown during which the effect cannot be regained. Without a scientific test, this internal cooldown seemed to be approximately 20 seconds.

[felicity]

Thanks for doing all this testing, Tibbel.

So you can get 4-5 free Overload Shots off during the duration? Sounds useful for additional damage during mobile phases during raid bosses. I think I'll drop Vitality Serum for it when 1.2 comes out.

[Leafblight]

(04-05-2012 07:33 AM)felicity Wrote:  So you can get 4-5 free Overload Shots off during the duration? Sounds useful for additional damage during mobile phases during raid bosses. I think I'll drop Vitality Serum for it when 1.2 comes out.

In theory you can get 5 shots off...with zero latency and absolute precision on the timing. Since neither of those are possible, lets say you can get 4 for discussion. Firstly, with this talented and the buff up, Overload Shot (OS) basically becomes an improved Rifle Shot (RS): It does slightly more damage, has the same cast time (1 GCD due to it being insta-cast), is (in theory, based on assumed gearing choices) accuracy capped (where as RS is not), and encounters the same defense/armor mitigation. So, simple question: How often do you RS 4 times in a row without pause? If you find that you do, then great, this may be a great addition. Frankly, I find it to be a lackluster way to spend 2 points (not that Vitality Serum is exactly that amazing either). Furthermore, there's no guarantee that the buff will be "up" (off its internal CD) when you need it; if you just had to re-position yourself 10 secs ago to get out of Jarg's fire whirl or go pop one of Soa's Lightning Orbs you'll find yourself SOL. I appreciate that the devs tried to improve this talent, but I don't think they did a good job of it this time. I mean, OS is not at all supported in any other way by the Engineering tree, even in the slightest; where as Leth does support it ("Cut Down," Tier 3), making it seem that it would be a better fir there or is more intended for hybrid builds.

Please, someone take a moment and show me how I'm wrong, this just seems really kinda- "poor."

[felicity]

I never said it was an amazing talent, I said it's "useful for additional damage during mobile phases". I find it's pretty easy to use Rifle Shot 4 times in a row during mobile phases on Annihilation Droid and Gharj. Engineering in general past tier 4 doesn't have the same offensive boost that Marks and Lethality get - my points in Vitality Serum are there as filler. But for raiding, of course you would try to take talents that can increase damage. I'm guess you don't agree with that since you take Ballistic Dampers, but that's my take on things.

As for the issue of "who was this made for?", I have no idea. It fits with Engineering's focus on preserving energy, but before this skill re-design, we never had to give any thought to Overload. I dunno about it being aimed at or benefiting hybrids. For one thing, the changes to Assassins a few patches ago plus the upcoming Sorcerer changes indicate that Bioware doesn't even like the idea of hybrids. And Calculated Pursuit is a tier 4 talent - If you were say a Cull hybrid, you would have to give up Razor Rounds or Steady Shots to invest in it.

[Leafblight]

(04-06-2012 07:32 PM)felicity Wrote:  I never said it was an amazing talent, I said it's "useful for additional damage during mobile phases". I find it's pretty easy to use Rifle Shot 4 times in a row during mobile phases on Annihilation Droid and Gharj. Engineering in general past tier 4 doesn't have the same offensive boost that Marks and Lethality get - my points in Vitality Serum are there as filler. But for raiding, of course you would try to take talents that can increase damage. I'm guess you don't agree with that since you take Ballistic Dampers, but that's my take on things.

As I said, if you find RS 4 times in a row works for you, then consider this. I just, personally, have a difficult time conceiving that being a good option, much less the best. I know what you mean about para-tier 4 being lackluster, but i kind of feel this is a commonly held misconception. Hear me out: Sniper damage equals energy, plain and simp. So, EMP Discharge and Energy Overrides are an indirect buff to our damage (by allowing us to use more of our high damage abilities & less RS spam). Electrified Railgun is, admittedly, not staggering in power, but it easily matches Devouring Microbes and makes a decent pass at (3 points in) Imperial Assassin. Finally, Plasma Probe has always been undervalued as a dps tool on single targets, for reasons I do not fully grasp. As for me taking Ballistic Dampers I have my reasons. I believe, when raiding, on taking talents (or gear or items or whatever) that increase your "usefulness." Obviously, that can get fairly subjective but when faced with a middling damage increase on an ability that makes up a relatively small portion of my total damage or one of the most powerful defensive abilities at our disposal, the choice is clear to me. Of course, YMMV.

(04-06-2012 07:32 PM)felicity Wrote:  As for the issue of "who was this made for?", I have no idea. It fits with Engineering's focus on preserving energy, but before this skill re-design, we never had to give any thought to Overload. I dunno about it being aimed at or benefiting hybrids. For one thing, the changes to Assassins a few patches ago plus the upcoming Sorcerer changes indicate that Bioware doesn't even like the idea of hybrids. And Calculated Pursuit is a tier 4 talent - If you were say a Cull hybrid, you would have to give up Razor Rounds or Steady Shots to invest in it.

/facepalm My bad, I brainfarted and forgot to account for them moving it up a couple tiers. Disregard my hybrid theory. My concern remains though, its seems poorly though out or misplaced.

[felicity]

Sure, energy indirectly creates more damage, but I think this is a bit deceptive since Engineering is reliant on longer cooldowns. Plasma Probe's single target damage disadvantage versus the other 2 30 pt talents is pretty clear: If a boss moves, you aren't going to get all of the ticks in. Of course, the new and improved Plasma Probe seems to address some of that by having more quickly ticking damage upfront. Dampers was great for leveling and synergized with how defensive Engineering abilities were designed, but I only miss it when I find myself offtanking Jarg. Ambush is pretty powerful, even for Engineers. With the animation, you can cast Ambush then spam Explosive Probe when the cast is nearly finished, and your Ambush will set off the Probe. Handy if you can time the Ambush to hit right when silly Soa goes vulnerable.

[Leafblight]

(04-07-2012 03:18 AM)felicity Wrote:  Sure, energy indirectly creates more damage, but I think this is a bit deceptive since Engineering is reliant on longer cooldowns. Plasma Probe's single target damage disadvantage versus the other 2 30 pt talents is pretty clear: If a boss moves, you aren't going to get all of the ticks in. Of course, the new and improved Plasma Probe seems to address some of that by having more quickly ticking damage upfront. Dampers was great for leveling and synergized with how defensive Engineering abilities were designed, but I only miss it when I find myself offtanking Jarg. Ambush is pretty powerful, even for Engineers. With the animation, you can cast Ambush then spam Explosive Probe when the cast is nearly finished, and your Ambush will set off the Probe. Handy if you can time the Ambush to hit right when silly Soa goes vulnerable.

How many (operation) bosses move in such a way that you're unable to predict their movements and place/time plasma probe intelligently? Bonethrasher is the only one I can come up with. The same premise inherit in your logic can just as easily (and, imho, more accurately) discount Rapid Fire; how many boss fights frequently have mechanics that will stun/knockdown/push you, thus interrupting you? How many frequently have mechanics that might require you to suddenly move and lose three-quarters (just as an example) of a SoS? Throwing out an ability on the premise that "bosses move" is foolish if you don't think fully through the problem, or even apply the same logic that "bosses do stuff" to the other options.

Re: Ballistic Dampers - As I said, YMMV. /shrug

The Ambush + Explosive Probe combo is being "fixed" in 1.2, as in it will no longer work that way. Sorry
~~~
Anywho, I did a quick and dirty Eng spec'd log/parse on the test server this morning and I figured I'd share in case anyone had been wondering. Please see here. Any other Eng snipers on the PTR wanna run one and post up? I'm interested to see what others are getting.

[felicity]

1) I'm not a fan of Rapid Fire. I would rather discount it because I think it's bad overall, rather than discount it because of interruptions. I raid with 7/31/3 85-90% of the time. I have no issues with Mr. Probe in Eternity Vault, but KP is a mixed bag.

2) I heard about the Explosive/Ambush a couple days back as well. Sucks.

3) Looking at your combat log, Ambush makes up a decent amount of your damage. Given your previous comments about Ambush / Precision Ambush, does seeing this log change your mind regarding it at all?

[Tibbel]

(04-11-2012 05:04 AM)felicity Wrote:  1) I'm not a fan of Rapid Fire. I would rather discount it because I think it's bad overall, rather than discount it because of interruptions. I raid with 7/31/3 85-90% of the time. I have no issues with Mr. Probe in Eternity Vault, but KP is a mixed bag.

Rapid Fire isn't bad, really; it's just that RF, a tier 7 skill, isn't clearly better than Cluster Bombs, a tier 4 skill. This is a design issue if the intent is to make pure specs preferable to hybrids.

(04-11-2012 05:04 AM)felicity Wrote:  3) Looking at your combat log, Ambush makes up a decent amount of your damage. Given your previous comments about Ambush / Precision Ambush, does seeing this log change your mind regarding it at all?

I can't speak for Leafblight, but I do have some math.

If the thought is that Ballistic Dampers is a must-have for survivability purposes, then the question is: Which is the best place to take those 2 points from, Precision Ambush (+20% armor penetration on Ambush) or Lethality (+2% crit to everything)?

Assuming Shatter Shot is already active on the boss, reducing its 35% armor (5814 rating) to 30.11% (4651 rating), then Precision Ambush reduces the boss's armor further to 24.41% (3488 rating). That's a (1 - 24.41%) / (1 - 30.11%) - 1 = 8.16% increase to Ambush damage. Since Ambush made up 12.74% of Leafblight's total damage, those two points would add +1.04% total damage, or +0.52% per point.

From the post on the official forums, Leafblight's surge is 73.65%. Orbital Strike and Plasma Probe are AoE, so they get a bonus 30% surge (total of 103.65%) and make up a combined 23.26% of the total damage; the other 76.74% of the damage uses the 73.65% critical damage multiplier. The Lethality skill adds 1% crit per point (as of patch 1.2), so (103.65% × 23.26% + 73.65% × 76.74%) × +1% = +0.81% total damage per point.

So, if Ballistic Dampers is a must-have, then it looks like Precision Ambush is the best place to steal points from.

Of course, the numbers could change if the distribution of skill usage differs significantly from Leafblight's log.

[Leafblight]

Honestly, when I saw that, I honestly considered how much it might help. But, the other thing to consider is this: I sat perfectly still and just went through a rotation as best I could. I imagine in an actual fight where I actually have to move/do things and where I have different buffs (and use my relic on my big abilities like OS) things will show in a different light. That said, I DO look forward to seeing a combat log/parse and reconsider my viewpoint...I hope you are as well.