EC: Zorn and Toth (Hard Mode)

[Khadroth]

(04-25-2012 02:19 PM)Rooks Wrote:  One issue we had was on Toth berzerk phase, in 16 man (this is not an issue in 8), the yellow circle lasts a bit too long on the target before turning purple. What this would do is have Toth leap away before the Baradium Heave hit him, leaving him stuck in Berzerk.

What we ended up doing is calling a stop to DPS on either boss when they hit 71% or 31% (as Toth will leap when one hits 70 or 30), waiting for the circle to go purple, then pushing them hard. I don't like anything that involves stopping DPS on a short enrage fight, but this DID work, as we eventually got the kill.

My question is, has anyone found a better solution for this in 16, or is this the proper way to handle it?

We handle it the same way in 8 man, you simply can't risk pushing him to the next phase and having everyone soaking Zorn's rocks getting fearful. Our melee switch to zorn during that period, so we just swap the ranged to Toth and make sure not to push either below 1-2% of the phase switch before people are headed back to their positions.

[Rooks]

In the OP, for the Hard Mode summary, it has this line:

"At 10% the bosses hit a soft enrage - the rock/spikes/pulse damage from earlier phases all happen at once. Toth can all berserk."

As melee DPS, I am well aware that Toth is doing Ground Shatter, but I am not clear on what the other effects listed suggest. Is it saying Zorn is throwing rocks and doing Shriek at the same time? Or Sonic Paralysis? And what does 'Toth can all berserk' mean?

Guess I am just look for a concise summary of the soft enrage. We did it last night, but it was mostly just a manic blur.

[Squishei]

(04-26-2012 12:50 AM)Rooks Wrote:  In the OP, for the Hard Mode summary, it has this line:

"At 10% the bosses hit a soft enrage - the rock/spikes/pulse damage from earlier phases all happen at once. Toth can all berserk."

As melee DPS, I am well aware that Toth is doing Ground Shatter, but I am not clear on what the other effects listed suggest. Is it saying Zorn is throwing rocks and doing Shriek at the same time? Or Sonic Paralysis? And what does 'Toth can all berserk' mean?

Guess I am just look for a concise summary of the soft enrage. We did it last night, but it was mostly just a manic blur.

The bosses do the constant 1k ticking damage, the red ground spot spikes AND zorn throws rocks at anyone within 30 meters (the thing Zorn does during baradium cleave cast).

[Rooks]

(04-26-2012 12:04 PM)Squishei Wrote:  

(04-26-2012 12:50 AM)Rooks Wrote:  In the OP, for the Hard Mode summary, it has this line:

"At 10% the bosses hit a soft enrage - the rock/spikes/pulse damage from earlier phases all happen at once. Toth can all berserk."

As melee DPS, I am well aware that Toth is doing Ground Shatter, but I am not clear on what the other effects listed suggest. Is it saying Zorn is throwing rocks and doing Shriek at the same time? Or Sonic Paralysis? And what does 'Toth can all berserk' mean?

Guess I am just look for a concise summary of the soft enrage. We did it last night, but it was mostly just a manic blur.

The bosses do the constant 1k ticking damage, the red ground spot spikes AND zorn throws rocks at anyone within 30 meters (the thing Zorn does during baradium cleave cast).

So it is just Zorn's rockthrowing combined with Toth's Groundshatter. It made it sound like there was a third effect in place, but Ground Shatter is the spikes plus the ticking AOE.

[thrakkemarn]

So we finally got them down. It required us to move out of the Fearful (by moving 30+ meters away from Zorn) and then jumping back in, or swapping targets so no DoTs were on Zorn when Fearful hit. This was on 8-man, not sure if Fearful operates differently than on 16-man, but I switched to DPS for this fight and just to test it stood 26m from Zorn and still got hit with Fearful. It can be worked around once you know to expect it.

At 10% the fight got a little nasty, Toth was quickly burned down but then several people died from Zorn's Rock Throw combined with the DoT, and the tank on Zorn got smashed incredibly hard with a Force Scream when Toth died. But even with only 5 people up (and no healer) we easily burned down the add at the end. IMO getting through that last 10% on each boss asap is incredibly important - save whatever you can to burst through it.

[Twentycents]

(04-23-2012 10:38 PM)Khadroth Wrote:  

(04-21-2012 04:44 AM)thrakkemarn Wrote:  Well, I realize the first step in trouble-shooting is to state the obvious, but we're well aware of how to read distances from the boss. I assure you no dps are pulling aggro right before, during or after the leap. Not trying to be defensive here, just explaining what we're experiencing.

I've been assured by both DPS on Zorn and the healer on Zorn that despite being at close to 30m from him they are getting the debuff. If they run outside 30m, they don't get it. However, I did notice in the OP it says 30m from the "impact" of the jump. Possibly I'm just misunderstanding something here.

I don't know if it will help at all but here are the logs for our back-to-back story mode and HM attempt:
http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/combatlog/b1...b7#d=0,f=7
http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/combatlog/cb...17f1aa#d=0

I have to agree with Rev, there's only one way to get fearful. So despite what your ranged are "assuring" you, if they're getting it, they were within 25 meters of the boss during the leap. However it is possible that your dps are confusing fearful with another debuff like Zorn's dot or a battle rez (which looks very similar).

Fearfull is a DEBUFF from Zorn that happens only of u're facing Zorn, that's why u have to swtich tanks every 20%
The second DEBUFF from Zorn goes with a DOT that stacks over the time untill dispelled, cancelled.

BTW this DOT happens if ure within more than 25 meters, maybe 28 is the good distance.

Hope this helps.

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[shaundibble69]

ast night we kept hitting a bug where the tank on zorn would get 1 shot. after checking the combat logs this is what we found in each attempt that it happened

Death 1
20:48:49.338 Anubis's Sundering Assault hits Zorn for 515 energy damage, causing 773 threat.
20:48:49.755 Zorn's Mental Anguish (Any) hits Anubis for 346 internal damage, causing 346 threat.
20:48:51.778 Anubis gains 1 .
20:48:51.778 Zorn's Mental Anguish (Any) hits Anubis for 346 internal damage, causing 346 threat.
20:48:52.439 Demelza's Hunter's Boon effect of Hunter's Boon fades from Anubis.
20:48:52.439 Demelza's Hunter's Boon effect of Coordination fades from Anubis.
20:48:52.439 Unknown Entity (No name provided in log)'s Mark of Power effect of Mark of Power fades from Anubis.
20:48:52.439 Unknown Entity (No name provided in log)'s Mark of Power effect of Unnatural Might fades from Anubis.
20:48:52.440 Zorn's Shriek effect of Mental Anguish (Any) fades from Anubis.
20:48:52.440 Zorn's Shriek effect of Weakened (Any) fades from Anubis.
20:48:52.440 Anubis loses from Unknown Entity (No name provided in log).
20:48:52.440 Anubis gains Sprint.
20:48:52.450 Unknown Entity (No name provided in log) kills Anubis.


Death 1
20:55:56.395 Mystified's Static Barrier effect of Static Barrier fades from Anubis.
20:55:56.395 Anubis gains 1 .
20:55:56.395 Zorn's Shriek hits Anubis for 5198 internal damage, causing 5198 threat. (3893 absorbed)
20:55:56.613 Anubis's Crushing Blow effect of Armor Reduced fades from Zorn.
20:55:56.614 Lineart's Resurgence adds effect Reconstruct to Anubis.
20:55:56.614 Lineart's Resurgence adds effect Resurgence to Anubis.
20:55:56.630 Lineart's Resurgence heals Anubis for 853, causing 362 threat.
20:55:56.981 Anubis activates Force Choke.
20:55:56.981 Anubis's Crushed hits Toth for 210 kinetic damage, causing 316 threat.
20:55:57.060 Zorn's Shriek adds effect Mental Anguish (Any) to Anubis.
20:55:57.060 Zorn's Shriek adds effect Weakened (Any) to Anubis.
20:55:57.060 Zorn's Mental Anguish (Any) hits Anubis for 693 internal damage, causing 693 threat.
20:55:58.039 Anubis's Crushed hits Toth for 189 kinetic damage, causing 284 threat.
20:55:58.039 Anubis gains 1 .
20:55:58.536 Lineart's Resurgence effect of Reconstruct fades from Anubis.
20:55:58.536 Demelza's Hunter's Boon effect of Hunter's Boon fades from Anubis.
20:55:58.537 Mystified's Mark of Power effect of Mark of Power fades from Anubis.
20:55:58.537 Mystified's Mark of Power effect of Coordination fades from Anubis.
20:55:58.537 Anubis loses Battle Cry.
20:55:58.537 Demelza's Hunter's Boon effect of Unnatural Might fades from Anubis.
20:55:58.537 Lineart's Resurgence effect of Resurgence fades from Anubis.
20:55:58.538 Zorn's Emboldened effect of Fearful fades from Anubis.
20:55:58.538 Zorn's Shriek effect of Mental Anguish (Any) fades from Anubis.
20:55:58.538 Zorn's Shriek effect of Weakened (Any) fades from Anubis.
20:55:58.538 Anubis loses from Unknown Entity (No name provided in log).
20:55:58.539 Anubis gains Sprint.
20:55:58.550 Toth's Smash hits Anubis for 4647 kinetic damage, causing 4647 threat.
20:55:58.550 Toth kills Anubis.
20:55:59.291 Anubis's Crushed hits Toth for 165 kinetic damage.
20:55:59.291 Anubis gains 1 .

anybody else hitting this problem checked with 2 different parser (askmrrobot + torparse) and both show the same unknown ability doing around 30k dmg

Ability Flurry (no name)
Damage Taken 31.2% 69995 13.8% 30975
Absorbed 15142 0

[thrakkemarn]

I am 99% sure that your tank is getting hit with Fearful on them.

edit: Upon reflection it's also possible that your tank has some sort of DoT on the boss when he gets hit by Fearful and the reflected DoT damage is contributing. A DoT tick + a hit from the boss with Fearful on your can quickly lead to death.

[Miazma]

(05-03-2012 04:47 AM)thrakkemarn Wrote:  I am 99% sure that your tank is getting hit with Fearful on them.

edit: Upon reflection it's also possible that your tank has some sort of DoT on the boss when he gets hit by Fearful and the reflected DoT damage is contributing. A DoT tick + a hit from the boss with Fearful on your can quickly lead to death.

You are right it is Fearful - upon further investigation what was happening was that the Fearful debuff had not worn off from the first tank swap, and so when the second swap happened the tank nuked himself.

[gravleycj]

(05-03-2012 10:00 PM)Miazma Wrote:  

(05-03-2012 04:47 AM)thrakkemarn Wrote:  I am 99% sure that your tank is getting hit with Fearful on them.

edit: Upon reflection it's also possible that your tank has some sort of DoT on the boss when he gets hit by Fearful and the reflected DoT damage is contributing. A DoT tick + a hit from the boss with Fearful on your can quickly lead to death.

You are right it is Fearful - upon further investigation what was happening was that the Fearful debuff had not worn off from the first tank swap, and so when the second swap happened the tank nuked himself.

I'm certain Fearful doesn't last that long. My guess is you had the same issue we had with tanks/melee.

I'm usually DPS-ing this fight, and we finally started some real progression attempts on this and I died very sudden a few times, along with Mauraders. What we found is that fearful goes out about 2s prior to Toth leaping. What myself and the Mauraders were doing was Saber Strike or Assault (or whatever the Maurader skill is that builds 3 rage) and you would take a strike of Fearful per impact. So 3 x 5k. That, combined with the leap, killed us seemingly instantly a few times until we figured out why.

So - TL;DR - Call out 92%, 72%, 52%, 32%, 12% and then only use instant single strike attacks until after the leap and you change targets. Also, Assassin tanks shouldn't use Discharge or Wither on Toth, as this will hit Zorn and damage them as well.