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**Kaedis** · (This post was last modified: 04-24-2012 10:11 AM by Kaedis.)

So let me get this straight, Incinerate Armor is cast just more than 2 seconds after Double Destruction?

Pwncakes · (This post was last modified: 04-24-2012 11:06 PM by Pwncakes.)

Incin Armor comes about 4-5secs after DD is cast. SO, if you call out (DD) then have a Jugg/Sin/PT that is dpsing FB taunt FB until Incin Armor is fully cast (4s cast) then have the original FB tank retaunt you never have to tank swap.

Surfnbird · 04-24-2012, 09:55 PM

(04-24-2012 10:13 AM)Pwncakes Wrote: Incin Armor comes about 4-5secs after DD is cast. SO, if you call out (DD) then have a Jugg/Merc/PT that is dpsing FB taunt FB until Incin Armor is fully cast (4s cast) then have the original FB tank retaunt you never have to tank swap.

^^ True, but Mercs don't have a taunt, thinking of Assassins Pwn. I taunt the Firebrand about 1-2 Seconds after double destruction, then the Tank on Firebrand taunts it the second it starts casting Incinerate armor. You only have to be the target of the initial cast to be the debuff target, no need to have it for the whole cast or you run the risk of getting one-shot by his next attack.

**Petrus** · (This post was last modified: 04-24-2012 11:22 PM by Petrus.)

(04-24-2012 09:55 PM)Surfnbird Wrote:
(04-24-2012 10:13 AM)Pwncakes Wrote: Incin Armor comes about 4-5secs after DD is cast. SO, if you call out (DD) then have a Jugg/Merc/PT that is dpsing FB taunt FB until Incin Armor is fully cast (4s cast) then have the original FB tank retaunt you never have to tank swap.
^^ True, but Mercs don't have a taunt, thinking of Assassins Pwn. I taunt the Firebrand about 1-2 Seconds after double destruction, then the Tank on Firebrand taunts it the second it starts casting Incinerate armor. You only have to be the target of the initial cast to be the debuff target, no need to have it for the whole cast or you run the risk of getting one-shot by his next attack.

Couple things about this. First off - not every raid has a DPS that can taunt - ours for instance does not, and it's fairly balanced.

(2x Mercs (1 heal, 1 dps), 1 of everything else. Assassin and Juggy are the only people who can taunt, and they're both tanks.)

This alone means that the taunting strategy is the right way to go, in general.

Secondly, and this is up to the individual raids to determine, I think having a DPS taunt is a lot more risky than doing a tank swap. We've never had issues losing aggro because of a swap, and we have some very high DPS (pulling 1600+ on this fight). A missed taunt or issue with a tank swap can be recovered from - CDs work here. We brought this boss down to 25% without ANY taunting, just healing our tank through the Incenerate Armor. One missed tank swap isn't the end of the fight, but one hit from the tank with IA up and the DPS is dead. Obviously either strat works, but only if you have the right composition.

Pwncakes · 04-24-2012, 11:17 PM

The Dps NEVER takes a hit while having IA is the thing bud. Also, in 16m your not going to be able to heal thru IA unless you have your healers on the inside on top of the tanks and have them all directly lay heals into him 28-33k hits on 16m HM hurt. Juggs can survive with Endure Pain but healers will need to be on the ball once it wears off.

I agree either strat works and it's up to the raids but never having to move (if you have someone to taunt FB) is the way to go imo.

therealrev · 04-25-2012, 07:27 AM

(04-24-2012 10:56 PM)Petrus Wrote:
(04-24-2012 09:55 PM)Surfnbird Wrote:
(04-24-2012 10:13 AM)Pwncakes Wrote: Incin Armor comes about 4-5secs after DD is cast. SO, if you call out (DD) then have a Jugg/Merc/PT that is dpsing FB taunt FB until Incin Armor is fully cast (4s cast) then have the original FB tank retaunt you never have to tank swap.
^^ True, but Mercs don't have a taunt, thinking of Assassins Pwn. I taunt the Firebrand about 1-2 Seconds after double destruction, then the Tank on Firebrand taunts it the second it starts casting Incinerate armor. You only have to be the target of the initial cast to be the debuff target, no need to have it for the whole cast or you run the risk of getting one-shot by his next attack.
Couple things about this. First off - not every raid has a DPS that can taunt - ours for instance does not, and it's fairly balanced.

(2x Mercs (1 heal, 1 dps), 1 of everything else. Assassin and Juggy are the only people who can taunt, and they're both tanks.)

This alone means that the taunting strategy is the right way to go, in general.

Secondly, and this is up to the individual raids to determine, I think having a DPS taunt is a lot more risky than doing a tank swap. We've never had issues losing aggro because of a swap, and we have some very high DPS (pulling 1600+ on this fight). A missed taunt or issue with a tank swap can be recovered from - CDs work here. We brought this boss down to 25% without ANY taunting, just healing our tank through the Incenerate Armor. One missed tank swap isn't the end of the fight, but one hit from the tank with IA up and the DPS is dead. Obviously either strat works, but only if you have the right composition.

It's hard for me to believe your DPS is pulling 1600+ (or your two melee pulling 1500-1600 on SC as in your previous post), I watched the video and they weren't even doing enough damage to skip any of the DDs. We had no problems with enrage and we skipped half of the DDs with myself (1364 DPS) and our shadow (985 DPS) on SC. Maybe your parser is off, maybe our parser is off (seems unlikely as I uploaded to several different sites), maybe we're missing something in the DD mechanic (I doubt this though), but if I'm incorrect I'd love to see some uploads of these parses (especially the marauder since I am a sentinel) to see if there's something I'm grossly missing in my rotation that would give me another 15% increase in my damage.

Here are my logs uploaded to two separate sites:
http://www.fryingtime.com/?filename=comb..._14_387000
http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/combatlog/8b...fc#d=0,f=7

**Petrus** · (This post was last modified: 04-27-2012 01:27 AM by Petrus.)

Our raids DPS has nothing to do with this fight. I will ask our marauder to upload his FB/SC logs and PM them to you, but please stay on topic here on these forums.

Tadow · 04-27-2012, 03:33 AM

(04-27-2012 01:26 AM)Petrus Wrote: Our raids DPS has nothing to do with this fight. I will ask our marauder to upload his FB/SC logs and PM them to you, but please stay on topic here on these forums.

greatly appreciated.

Friar Chuggs · 04-27-2012, 05:15 AM

Things are getting awfully testy in here for a strategy disagreement. FWIW, both Petrus and the DPS taunters are correct and have proposed functional, successful strategies.

A proper DPS taunt on Firebrand avoids all damage to the DPS, and a proper tank switch avoids all Incinerate damage to the switched tanks. Both work just fine, it's just a question of group composition, and which you find easier. This may vary based upon who pays more attention in raids, what people are focusing on, or quite simply if you even have a DPS with a taunt.

For us, DPS taunt was easier once we figured out the specifics. First, start the taunt about 2 seconds after DD is called out. Second, as soon as Incinerate starts casting, Firebrand tank taunts back. Incinerate will still hit initial target, but Firebrand will immediately return aggro to the tank. This strat allowed us to keep our assassin on Firebrand with his superior elemental resistance, and me (Jugg) on Stormcaller in case we miss part of a DD and I can cooldown my way through it. I felt like our focus on DD was better too with everyone only needing to worry about one mechanic during offensive phases, rather than putting all of the burden on the tanks to handle everything with the debuffs.

Squishei · 04-27-2012, 10:29 AM

(04-27-2012 05:15 AM)Friar Chuggs Wrote: Things are getting awfully testy in here for a strategy disagreement. FWIW, both Petrus and the DPS taunters are correct and have proposed functional, successful strategies.

A proper DPS taunt on Firebrand avoids all damage to the DPS, and a proper tank switch avoids all Incinerate damage to the switched tanks. Both work just fine, it's just a question of group composition, and which you find easier. This may vary based upon who pays more attention in raids, what people are focusing on, or quite simply if you even have a DPS with a taunt.

For us, DPS taunt was easier once we figured out the specifics. First, start the taunt about 2 seconds after DD is called out. Second, as soon as Incinerate starts casting, Firebrand tank taunts back. Incinerate will still hit initial target, but Firebrand will immediately return aggro to the tank. This strat allowed us to keep our assassin on Firebrand with his superior elemental resistance, and me (Jugg) on Stormcaller in case we miss part of a DD and I can cooldown my way through it. I felt like our focus on DD was better too with everyone only needing to worry about one mechanic during offensive phases, rather than putting all of the burden on the tanks to handle everything with the debuffs.

I thought stormcaller does purely elemental damage and is better for an assassin tank, whereas firebrand does physical damage and is better for a jugg tank.