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gravleycj · 04-19-2012, 10:20 PM

This was talked about earlier in the thread. While this is viable for Story Mode, it is not for Hard Mode. You either tank swap (which isn't difficult), or you bring a 3rd tank.

Rooks · 04-19-2012, 11:42 PM

(04-19-2012 10:20 PM)gravleycj Wrote: This was talked about earlier in the thread. While this is viable for Story Mode, it is not for Hard Mode. You either tank swap (which isn't difficult), or you bring a 3rd tank.

My question was more regarding the DD mechanic. If I am using a 3rd tank for FB, can two melee still soak DD and leave the SC tank to only tank SC (and never swap)? Probably a better question for the Hm thread, but hey, since we're here...

**Petrus** · 04-19-2012, 11:47 PM

(04-19-2012 11:42 PM)Rooks Wrote:
(04-19-2012 10:20 PM)gravleycj Wrote: This was talked about earlier in the thread. While this is viable for Story Mode, it is not for Hard Mode. You either tank swap (which isn't difficult), or you bring a 3rd tank.
My question was more regarding the DD mechanic. If I am using a 3rd tank for FB, can two melee still soak DD and leave the SC tank to only tank SC (and never swap)? Probably a better question for the Hm thread, but hey, since we're here...

You could, but (in hardmode at least) if you managed to pull the fight off with 3 tanks without hitting enrage I'd be insanely impressed. It'd probably be tight in story mode too.

Rooks · 04-20-2012, 12:13 AM

(04-19-2012 11:47 PM)Petrus Wrote:
(04-19-2012 11:42 PM)Rooks Wrote:
(04-19-2012 10:20 PM)gravleycj Wrote: This was talked about earlier in the thread. While this is viable for Story Mode, it is not for Hard Mode. You either tank swap (which isn't difficult), or you bring a 3rd tank.
My question was more regarding the DD mechanic. If I am using a 3rd tank for FB, can two melee still soak DD and leave the SC tank to only tank SC (and never swap)? Probably a better question for the Hm thread, but hey, since we're here...

You could, but (in hardmode at least) if you managed to pull the fight off with 3 tanks without hitting enrage I'd be insanely impressed. It'd probably be tight in story mode too.

I was more considering a strong DPS (Vanguard or Guardian) taunting and popping cooldowns, and trying to live while Incinerate Armor ticks off.

We have beaten storymode with 15 of 16 (we were just trying to feel out the mechanics, practice, and ended up with the kill), so it may not be a total loss. Granted, HM is a different beast, but our DPS may be up to it.

**Petrus** · 04-20-2012, 12:31 AM

(04-20-2012 12:13 AM)Rooks Wrote:
(04-19-2012 11:47 PM)Petrus Wrote:
(04-19-2012 11:42 PM)Rooks Wrote:
(04-19-2012 10:20 PM)gravleycj Wrote: This was talked about earlier in the thread. While this is viable for Story Mode, it is not for Hard Mode. You either tank swap (which isn't difficult), or you bring a 3rd tank.
My question was more regarding the DD mechanic. If I am using a 3rd tank for FB, can two melee still soak DD and leave the SC tank to only tank SC (and never swap)? Probably a better question for the Hm thread, but hey, since we're here...

You could, but (in hardmode at least) if you managed to pull the fight off with 3 tanks without hitting enrage I'd be insanely impressed. It'd probably be tight in story mode too.
I was more considering a strong DPS (Vanguard or Guardian) taunting and popping cooldowns, and trying to live while Incinerate Armor ticks off.

We have beaten storymode with 15 of 16 (we were just trying to feel out the mechanics, practice, and ended up with the kill), so it may not be a total loss. Granted, HM is a different beast, but our DPS may be up to it.

We tried it with a DPS taunting, but wasn't worth it. We kept him up, but there's no reason too. The tank swap, especially if you position how we did in our video, is probably about the easiest swap ever. It's quick, easy, no risk of taunting the wrong thing, no tank loses aggro... it's just simple. I'd much rather do a tank swap and have my healers pull some DPS off if they have down time, rather than trying to keep a DPS up who's taking 10 - 15k hits on harddmode. It's possible, but it's just not as efficient.

Juggernutts · 04-26-2012, 02:49 AM

I am not sure if this would work in HM, but having a DPSer that has a taunt but is still in DPS spec and gear should be ablebto taunt a second or two prior to Incinerate armor to take the debuff, then the tank would immediately taunt back.

As I had no other taunters last night, I had my highest threat gen Dps pull aggro off me. When I heard double destruction on my other tank, I stopped my threat Gen and he would pull aggro right before firebrand cast IA. I would taunt immediately after and he took no damage while I could tank without the extra stress on the healer.

thrakkemarn · 04-26-2012, 04:17 AM

Yeah to be honest I don't know why you wouldn't tank swap. Is there some reason people are opposed to it? It's absurdly easy to do perfectly every time. You see Incinerate Armor casting, tanks position in range and taunt and jump/force speed over to the other tank.

**Rystet** · (This post was last modified: 04-26-2012 07:01 AM by Rystet.)

(04-26-2012 04:17 AM)thrakkemarn Wrote: Yeah to be honest I don't know why you wouldn't tank swap. Is there some reason people are opposed to it? It's absurdly easy to do perfectly every time. You see Incinerate Armor casting, tanks position in range and taunt and jump/force speed over to the other tank.

There are a couple reasons avoiding tank swaps can be advantageous.

1) If tanks are not swapping they can be a bit more liberal with Taunts for threat generation. This gives DPS more room to unload early in a fight that does have a decent DPS requirement.

2) The 2 mobs deal different types of damage and are better suited for some particular tanks. Firebrands attacks can be defended, but Stormcallers can not. Stormcallers damage is completely elemental (armor is pointless) making an Assassin/Shadow Tank a better option with higher health pools, self heals, and more resistance. Juggernauts/Guardians will be easier to heal on Firebrand as they rely more on defense & armor.

thrakkemarn · 04-26-2012, 09:21 AM

Ok, point 2 is a good point that I was kind of disregarding in Story Mode. Definitely could be useful for under-geared groups if the composition is right, and even more so in Hard Mode.

Point 1 ... might be useful for an under-geared tank with over-geared dps, but aggro is not an issue if taunts are used properly. Even on a tank swap fight one of the taunts should be used on cooldown.

Thanks for answering me. I will have to give this some thought for HM if healers are struggling.

Salsa30 · 04-28-2012, 03:46 AM

Hey guys, got a question. Last night, every single time Defensive Systems activated, a Lightning Spire dropped on Stormcaller immediately prior to the casting of Defensive Systems. And it would usually drop on top of our dps/healer. Coupled with the Double Destruction debuff, by the time they moved out they were dead or almost dead.

Now last week when we cleared this, we only had 1 spire drop on Stormcaller during the entire fight (not counting the ones the tank has to kite while the shield is up).

Also, this week, on both sides, the Lightning Spires weren't showing up right away for all the raid members. I could see it, but 2 of the people on Stormcaller couldn't for a couple seconds.

I was under the impression that the Lightning Spires weren't supposed to spawn on Stormcaller's side, until the shield was up and the tank had to kite them. Was this mucho bugged for us last night, or do we just fail?