Sorcerer DPS BIS discussion

[Thepixel]

(03-24-2012 03:43 AM)Kor Wrote:  Rakata bracers are BOP items crafted by synthweaving. The goal of this BIS thread was to show the BIS set that could be achieves without profession-specific items, so it could be used as a universal BIS list, with individual professions having potential upgrades to be annotated on to the list.

Well with all due respect, then this isn't a BIS thread at all. There are no degrees of "Best" last time I checked.

It certainly makes sense to note special cases that are very close (orange bracers), but the BiS list should contain absolutely nothing other than the absolute possible best setup in optimal conditions.

[Khadroth]

(03-24-2012 04:13 AM)Thepixel Wrote:  

(03-24-2012 03:43 AM)Kor Wrote:  Rakata bracers are BOP items crafted by synthweaving. The goal of this BIS thread was to show the BIS set that could be achieves without profession-specific items, so it could be used as a universal BIS list, with individual professions having potential upgrades to be annotated on to the list.

Well with all due respect, then this isn't a BIS thread at all. There are no degrees of "Best" last time I checked.

It certainly makes sense to note special cases that are very close (orange bracers), but the BiS list should contain absolutely nothing other than the absolute possible best setup in optimal conditions.

You seem to be missing the point though. No one's saying you can't detail just that. But we need to know what the base is too. Then modify it and make note of any crew skill specific bonuses. Otherwise what you're wanting is actually unachievable atm. The true best in SLOT setup for example would have to include both an artifice crit crafted rakata power relic and synth crit crafted rakata belt/bracers.

[frmorrison]

(03-25-2012 01:06 AM)Khadroth Wrote:  The true best in SLOT setup for example would have to include both an artifice crit crafted rakata power relic and synth crit crafted rakata belt/bracers.

The Orange Belt is better than crit Rakata belt. The other two are correct. I don't know how many people are crazy enough to level two skills to 400 to get one item in order to get a 3-5 dps increase. I am sure there are a handful, but most people rather not do that.

I still disagree that those should be included, but a footnote should be added that says x items are slightly better (0.1% dps increase) than the one in the list.

[Thepixel]

(03-25-2012 01:06 AM)Khadroth Wrote:  You seem to be missing the point though. No one's saying you can't detail just that. But we need to know what the base is too. Then modify it and make note of any crew skill specific bonuses. Otherwise what you're wanting is actually unachievable atm. The true best in SLOT setup for example would have to include both an artifice crit crafted rakata power relic and synth crit crafted rakata belt/bracers.

With all due respect , I think you are the one missing the point here... If you aren't willing to level multiple crafting skills to 400 (which takes a matter of hours and is absolutely trivial in this game), you have no right to claim "best" in anything. There is only one BiS setup for a given goal/situation and leaving out even a slight increase because it's "easier" absolutely defeats the purpose.

[Kaedis]

Be that as it may, Thepixel, this is the design of our BIS list. BIS without any BoP crewskill items, with an addendum that states which crewskill items, if any, are superior to the "standard" BIS list.

[Thepixel]

(03-26-2012 07:31 AM)Kor Wrote:  Be that as it may, Thepixel, this is the design of our BIS list. BIS without any BoP crewskill items, with an addendum that states which crewskill items, if any, are superior to the "standard" BIS list.

Who is "our" ? With all due respect you're the only one who seems to think this should be the case. Otherwise you might as well call this the GiS (good in slot) list.

But call it what you want, I will continue posting builds which only contain the true BiS (including crafted pieces if necessary) as we learn more.

Hopefully I'll get around to doing some theory around 1.2 numbers soon now that the gear stats are publicly visible.

[Archie]

I have got a question about this Thread.

- Is Kor posts up to date and includes the bis set?

-> http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/character/7b...2105e8e48b ?

[Kaedis]

(04-03-2012 07:18 AM)Archie Wrote:  I have got a question about this Thread.

- Is Kor posts up to date and includes the bis set?

-> http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/character/7b...2105e8e48b ?

No. I believe this post shows the current BIS setup (with chestpiece modification at the bottom). However, this only holds for 13/28 for 1.1.5. We'll need to do a massive update in 1.2.

[Archie]

(04-03-2012 11:06 AM)Kor Wrote:  No. I believe this post shows the current BIS setup (with chestpiece modification at the bottom). However, this only holds for 13/28 for 1.1.5. We'll need to do a massive update in 1.2.

How can you get a critted version of the exotech chest? And it is necessary to have the Rakata Relic of Boundless Ages when you don't have artifice?
I am pretty sure that you have to do a massive update in 1.2.

Edit: I also wanted to say thx to everyone who was working and testing the bis set

[Indo]

A lot of this thread's discussion is hinged on the idea of whether or not something is best, but forgets entirely the amount of time and effort people have put into leveling their crew skills. I am one of the crazy people who took synthweaving to make two items, took artifice to make one item, then took biochem. There are a ton of people who are just as dedicated though, and have reverse engineered or attained from drops 45 different epic patterns from synthweaving. For those players, dropping a crew skill they have put that much effort into is simply not an option for such small throughput gains.

Best is actually a variable, contrary to earlier poster's arguments. So what is "Best in Slot"? The answer is similar to when a player asks, "What's the stat weights for a Sage?" Stat weights are going to be different for every player, and so is best in slot in reference to critically crafted items, and any best in slot gear list needs to include multiple options to represent this.

When comparing best in slot gear, a single crew skill could be given it's own value. If being biochem gives you X willpower and X power becasue of an enhanced stim, this should be noted as value Y. Given this, each crew skill can be compared essentially as a 15th item slot. Each crew skill can then be noted as "retainable" or "lost" when the crew skill is dropped. When using a spreadsheet or simulator to calculate effectiveness, retainable crew skills should be able to be turned on and off to give different outputs, allowing players to choose whether they are dropping crew skills or not.


The results of any simulation involving multiple crew skills may actually change what's BiS in other slots also. You could end up with a different way of modding, for example, if a willpower and surge item suddenly races ahead of a willpower and alacrity item when it's augmented.

That said, what is happening in 1.2 may make this argument void, if customized augmented gear is the norm for nearly every slots. I do know though, that I'm not alone when I say I'm exited for new gear!