Sorcerer DPS BIS discussion

[frmorrison]

(03-10-2012 09:15 AM)Kor Wrote:  

Quote:Here is the BiS

By the way, your setup is simming at 1595 dps, versus 1617 with mine (corrected for the set bonuses from above).

I made some mistakes, but now I made a good (replacing all the mods to be aptitude mod 25 instead of 25A and using Mystic chest) list.

The question I have is if one Rakata Stalker is better than two Mastercrafts.

e: After the sim, double Expert Nano-tech is best. Kor your list is the BiS. I was surprised that much alacrity was in the best in slot.

[Caltiom]

I added the new BiS gear to SimC:
http://code.google.com/p/simulationcraft...af8bb551cf

Thanks Kor

( hopefully next time I can directly import from Mr.Robot. Just waiting for their API... )

[Thepixel]

EDIT: Arguing with myself a bit here, please read the whole thing before replying as I refute some of these early claims later on in the post.

My simcraft is behaving a little strangely, this is the list that I had made about a week ago (sorry for not posting it sorcs I'd made it for a guildie )

It may just be my simcraft behaving in a silly way, but this gives about the exact same DPS on my simcraft atm [shows 1652 last run] (and should be a bit easier to get)

Code:

head=rakata_force_masters_headgear,stats=_44end_61willpower__29end_48willpower_3​7power_24end_37power_51surge
ear=columi_force_masters_relay,stats=80end_97willpower_41power_48alacrity__28wil​lpower
shirt=datacrons,stats=40willpower
chest=rakata_force_mystics_robe,stats=_44end_61willpower__29end_48willpower_37cr​it__24end_37power_51surge
waist=rakata_stalkers_waistwrap,stats=71end_103willpower_11crit_28willpower
legs=rakata_force_masters_lower_robe,stats=_44end_61willpower__29end_48willpower​_37power__24end_37power_51surge
feet=rakata_force_masters_boots,stats=_55end_51willpower__29end_48willpower_37po​wer__24end_37crit_51alacrity
wrists=rakata_force_masters_bracers,stats=71end_103willpower_11power_28willpower​
hands=rakata_force_masters_gloves,stats=_44end_61willpower__29end_48willpower_37​power__24end_37power_51surge
implant1=vehemence_nano_optic_resolve_system,stats=50end_62willpower_40power_25c​rit_69alacrity_28willpower
implant2=vehemence_nano_optic_resolve_system,stats=50end_62willpower_40power_25c​rit_69alacrity_28willpower
relic1=rakata_relic_of_boundless_ages,stats=77end_28willpower,equip=380Power_120​cd_20dur
relic2=plasma_burst_device,stats=77end,equip=ondamage_168elemental_30%_4.5cd
main_hand=echo_of_xoxaan,stats=_41power__612forcepower_44end_61willpower__29end_​48willpower_37power__24end_37power_51surge,weapon=lightsaber_306min_459max
off_hand=rakata_stalkers_power_generator,stats=85end_103willpower_612forcepower_​77crit_51surge

Basically some of the enhancements are different and you're using a different set of implants... but it should be way easier to get a critted rakata belt/wrists rather than the oranges.

Also I notice you use the matrix cube but according to every test I've seen the Rakata relic of boundless ages with a willpower augment in it is better.

Also it appears to me that the Vehemence implants are better than Expert
(Lose 40 surge gain 40 alacrity)

Apologizes if i missed a discussion on this somewhere!

When i plug in your gear set it shows 1650 for me... there is some funkiness if you run too many simulations within one instance of simcraft that I've seen, so I always restart the program before making definitive comparisions (full 50k runs for normalization)

EDIT: Playing around with this, I'm getting highest numbers using a combined set our our data. Specifically I think taking what I put above and then subbing in your orange wrists/bracers has given me the highest so far (1656)... I will keep tinkering as always and post results if they get any better

Here's what I've found (Moved some crit from enhancement to mod as those are way easier to get, but mainly just the change above is reflected here, robot builder coming soon)

Code:

head=rakata_force_masters_headgear,stats=_44end_61willpower__29end_48willpower_3​7power_24end_37crit_51surge
ear=columi_force_masters_relay,stats=80end_97willpower_41power_48alacrity__28wil​lpower
shirt=datacrons,stats=40str_40aim_40cunning_40willpower_40pre_40end
chest=rakata_force_mystics_robe,stats=_44end_61willpower__29end_48willpower_37po​wer__24end_37crit_51surge
waist=saber_marshals_waistwrap,stats=_44end_61willpower__29end_48willpower_37pow​er
legs=rakata_force_masters_lower_robe,stats=_44end_61willpower__29end_48willpower​_37power__24end_37power_51alacrity
feet=rakata_force_masters_boots,stats=_55end_51willpower__29end_48willpower_37po​wer__24end_37crit_51surge
wrists=saber_marshals_bracers,stats=_44end_61willpower__29end_48willpower_37powe​r
hands=rakata_force_masters_gloves,stats=_44end_61willpower__29end_48willpower_37​power__24end_37crit_51surge
implant1=vehemence_nano_optic_resolve_system,stats=50end_62willpower_40power_25c​rit_69alacrity_28willpower
implant2=vehemence_nano_optic_resolve_system,stats=50end_62willpower_40power_25c​rit_69alacrity_28willpower
relic1=rakata_relic_of_boundless_ages,stats=77end_28willpower,equip=380Power_120​cd_20dur
relic2=plasma_burst_device,stats=77end,equip=ondamage_168elemental_30%_4.5cd
main_hand=echo_of_xoxaan,stats=_41power__612forcepower_44end_61willpower__29end_​48willpower_37power__24end_37power_51surge,weapon=lightsaber_306min_459max
off_hand=rakata_stalkers_power_generator,stats=85end_103willpower_612forcepower_​77crit_51surge

You all still get one of those pesky power/surge enhancements... but they aren't that rare I already have a few myself.

[frmorrison]

(03-13-2012 06:09 AM)Thepixel Wrote:  Basically some of the enhancements are different and you're using a different set of implants... but it should be way easier to get a critted rakata belt/wrists rather than the oranges.

Also I notice you use the matrix cube but according to every test I've seen the Rakata relic of boundless ages with a willpower augment in it is better.

Also it appears to me that the Vehemence implants are better than Expert
(Lose 40 surge gain 40 alacrity)

I get an average of 1649 with Kor's list.

It is easier to get an Orange bracers (I see them on GTN for 100k+) and an Orange belt requires 60 fleet comms (from doing space missions), this is Light Armor only for now. I got higher dps (in Kor's list) using the Orange items over the Rakata with Augments.

If Vehemence is better than Expert depends on your other stats, at least in Kor's stats the Surge is better than Alacrity.

The Rakata Relic with augment is better than the Matrix Shard relic. Swapping the Matrix Shard to Rakata with Relic gives me another 9 dps to Kor's list, getting 1658 dps. This is the line to add:
relic1=trinket,use=380power_120cd_20dur
and remove 24 crit and 22 wp from Kor's stat listing.

[Arasaka]

Here's where I'm at:
http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/character/84...789a307e38

I think you'll get more bang out of the expert mastercrafted belt/bracers. Also I haven't looked at replacing some of the enhancements with power/surge variants. Just ran a sim using the Sith_Sorcerer_Hybrid and replaced the gear with:

shirt=datacrons,stats=1421willpower_1224forcepower_590power_262crit_340surge_259​​alacrity
relic2=plasma_burst_device,equip=ondamage_168elemental_30%_4.5cd

It's simming at ~1673.

*edit: Ran the sim presuming that I swapped 3 Battle Enhancements (37crit/51surge) with Adept Enhancements (37power/51surge) it simmed lower @1666.
*edit2: tweeking the numbers manually, it seems like it's in a tight balance. The only benifit I could squeeze out would be changing one of the implants from Expert to Supremecy. Effectively swapping +crit/-power by 25, and +alacrity/-surge by 40. It gained a whole 1.5dps (1674.5 sim). Anything more shifted in either direction and the sim dps started going back down.

[frmorrison]

(03-13-2012 11:07 AM)Arasaka Wrote:  Here's where I'm at:
http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/character/84...789a307e38

My understanding of the bracers is there is only one version of the crafted item, i.e.
http://www.torhead.com/schematic/cZhqvh1...rs-bracers which would be 113 WP/37 Power with the augment and the belt is 131 WP/11 crit. The customs are 109/37 Power, so the crafted bracers are 4 WP better but the belt is worse so may be a wash.

[Arasaka]

Yep, I initially discounted the Rakata Mastercrafted Wrists/Belt because I'm not a synthweaver (BoP crafted) and I can't make them. But I suppose it makes sense to include them in a BiS list .

I ran sims using: Rakata Force-Master's Sash and Rakata Stalker Bracers.

Mastercrafted Rakata wrist/belt it parses higher @ 1686
However, non-Mastercrafted Rakata wrist/belt are dps downgrades @1660.

Thinking on that lines as well, Exo Force-Master's Bracers Mastercrafted are also a minor upgrade (1-2dps) over the Expert Dark Synth Waistwrap (but not the bracers).

p.s. from above the one's I selected in my BiS link are T2 BoE crafted from vendor recipes and easilly found on the GTN. I don't think a lot of people realize that the Rakata ones aren't as good from a pure DPS stand point though survivability may play in with the much higher end stat on the Rakata.

*edit: updated mrrobot link to reflect Mastercrafted Rakata belt/bracer. I tried tweeking the enhancements and same deal as before, I can't squeeze any more dps out by shifting power:crit or surge:alacrity.

[Thepixel]

(03-13-2012 03:50 PM)Arasaka Wrote:  Mastercrafted Rakata wrist/belt it parses higher @ 1686
However, non-Mastercrafted Rakata wrist/belt are dps downgrades @1660.

Are you running at 25k or 50k iterations on that? Using the items listed in your link it's a significant downgrade to 1618 dps....

EDIT: Doubling the augments in each augmented piece gives the DPS rating you listed... are you sure you aren't counting the willpower for the ear,implants, belt and bracers twice???

[Caltiom]

To avoid confusion when comparing results, I recommend to check if all settings ( buffs, debuffs, fight lenght, etc. ) are on default. You can also copy & paste the content of the simc_gui.simc file found in your SimulationCraft folder after running a simulation in here, so one can be completly sure the same settings were used.

Edit: Spoiler Tags don't seem to work, so just use [code].

[Thepixel]

(03-13-2012 07:15 AM)frmorrison Wrote:  I get an average of 1649 with Kor's list.

It is easier to get an Orange bracers (I see them on GTN for 100k+) and an Orange belt requires 60 fleet comms (from doing space missions), this is Light Armor only for now. I got higher dps (in Kor's list) using the Orange items over the Rakata with Augments.

If Vehemence is better than Expert depends on your other stats, at least in Kor's stats the Surge is better than Alacrity.

The Rakata Relic with augment is better than the Matrix Shard relic. Swapping the Matrix Shard to Rakata with Relic gives me another 9 dps to Kor's list, getting 1658 dps.

This is the gear set I imagine you're referring to, using kor's list with the orange bracer/belt, expert, his mod/enhancements and the rakata relic:

Code:

head=rakata_force_masters_headgear,stats=_44end_61willpower_29end_48willpower_37​power_24end_37power_51alacrity
ear=columi_force_masters_relay,stats=80end_97willpower_41power_48alacrity_28will​power
shirt=datacrons,stats=40str_40aim_40cunning_40willpower_40pre_40end
chest=rakata_force_mystics_robe,stats=_44end_61willpower_29end_48willpower_37pow​er_24end_37power_51surge
waist=saber_marshals_waistwrap,stats=_44end_61willpower_29end_48willpower_37crit​
legs=rakata_force_masters_lower_robe,stats=_44end_61willpower_29end_48willpower_​37power_24end_37power_51surge
feet=rakata_force_masters_boots,stats=_55end_51willpower_29end_48willpower_37pow​er_24end_37power_51alacrity
wrists=saber_marshals_bracers,stats=_44end_61willpower_29end_48willpower_37crit
hands=rakata_force_masters_gloves,stats=_44end_61willpower_29end_48willpower_37p​ower_24end_37power_51alacrity
implant1=expert_nano_optic_resolve_system,stats=50end_62willpower_40power_25crit​_40surge_29alacrity_28willpower
implant2=expert_nano_optic_resolve_system,stats=50end_62willpower_40power_25crit​_40surge_29alacrity_28willpower
relic1=rakata_relic_of_boundless_ages,stats=77end_28willpower,equip=380Power_120​cd_20dur
relic2=plasma_burst_device,stats=77end,equip=ondamage_168elemental_30%_4.5cd
main_hand=echo_of_xoxaan,stats=_41power_612forcepower_44end_61willpower_29end_48​willpower_37power_24end_37crit_51surge,weapon=lightsaber_306min_459max
off_hand=rakata_stalkers_power_generator,stats=85end_103willpower_612forcepower_​77crit_51surge

This does come close to what I've put above, certainly, but in my tests it is just barely below... Extremely close though about .5 less typically. (Comparing against the second set listed in my post above)


For a frame of reference, make sure you run the equipment set you're running against through as well! And always use 50k iterations to normalize the result set.