Boss armor values

[Freehugs]

(03-04-2012 09:35 PM)Caltiom Wrote:  It would be great if more people volunteered to such armor testing.

I completely agree, I'll be interested to see your results.

[Caltiom]

(03-05-2012 06:51 AM)Freehugs Wrote:  

(03-04-2012 09:35 PM)Caltiom Wrote:  It would be great if more people volunteered to such armor testing.

I completely agree, I'll be interested to see your results.

Well if you give me a level 50 character and a raid group, sure

[Caltiom]

I changed the default enemy armor in Simulationcraft from 50% to 35%, which should result in 30.1% reduction with -20% the armor debuff. This change is already available in 114-3.

[Kaedis]

Just retested against Nightmare mode Soa (under the theory that if any of the bosses were going to have higher mitigation, he would). He had precisely 35% reduction against Energy, 0% reduction versus Internal.

Tested values were 495 per non-crit tick of FL, 267 per non-crit tick of Affliction. I had 699.3 Damage Bonus, 7/18/16 spec (so +12% FL damage, but not the +15% Affliction damage).

Affliction = 699.3 * 0.31 + 1610 * 0.031 = 216.783 + 49.91 = 266.693 per tick
267 / 266.693 = 1.00

FL = 699.3 * 0.79 + 1610 * 0.079 = 552.447 + 127.19 = 679.637 * 1.12 (Calcify) = 761.19344
495 / 761.19344 = 0.650

[hxxr]

(03-12-2012 02:28 PM)Kor Wrote:  He had precisely 35% reduction against Energy, 0% reduction versus Internal.

35% armor seems to be the consensus here and what I could gather while raiding, both hard and nightmare modes.

Something I didn't really test, but tried to have an eye on is armor debuff stacking. Has anyone done conclusive tests with a large sample?
As far as I see it debuffs don't add their value together, but I didn't test it in acontrolled enviroment. I do play a merc, so I don't have any static damage abilites, but with usually 3 debuffs on the target the armor reduction seems not to be 60%.

The bit on internal and elemental damage is interesting. It would confirm that accuracy is a entierly useless stat for Sorcerers.

[Caltiom]

(03-12-2012 11:23 PM)hxxr Wrote:  Something I didn't really test, but tried to have an eye on is armor debuff stacking. Has anyone done conclusive tests with a large sample?
As far as I see it debuffs don't add their value together, but I didn't test it in acontrolled enviroment. I do play a merc, so I don't have any static damage abilites, but with usually 3 debuffs on the target the armor reduction seems not to be 60%.

I'm sure you're aware of it, but I just wanted to point out the non-linear scaling nature of armor damage reduction again for all of those who want to test the stacking of armor.

Assuming 35% base dmg reduction from armor:

-20% armor will result in 30.1% dmg reduction ( not 28% )
-40% armor results in 24.4% dmg reduction ( not 21% )
-60% armor results in 17.7% dmg reduction ( not 14% )
-80% armor results in 9.7% dmg reduction ( not 7% )
-100% armor results of course in 0% dmg reduction

So assuming you have a spell which does 1000 damage without any armor debuff:
- with 1 armor debuff you'll get 1075.38 dmg

- with 2 armor debuffs and if debuffs don't stack you should still get 1075.38 dmg
- with 2 armor debuff and additive stacking you'd get 1163.08 dmg
- with 2 armor debuffs and multiplicative stacking ( - 25.6% armor reduction ) you'd get 1144.18 dmg

- with 3 debuffs additive: 1266.15 dmg
- with 3 debuffs multiplicative ( - 21.6% armor reduction ) : 1206 dmg

And so on. Oh and of course all those calculations are done using the armor to armor dmg reduction formula from the SWTOR formula list thread.

[Kaedis]

Quote:The bit on internal and elemental damage is interesting. It would confirm that accuracy is a entierly useless stat for Sorcerers.

Internal and Elemental damage reduction, not Resistance. Even if they had non-zero Internal/Elemental DR, accuracy wouldn't help, they are completely different mechanics. DR is based on damage type, chance to hit is based on attack type.

I was basically just verifying that bosses didn't have any baseline DR to Internal and Elemental damage, as those are effects that are relatively common (ex: Mark of Power

Mark of Power
Sith Inquisitor

Range: 30m
Activation time: Instant
Cooldown: 6 secs
Mirror: Force Valor

Increases the target's strength, aim, willpower and cunning by 5% and internal and elemental damage reduction by 10% for 60 minutes. If the target is a party member, all other party members are also affected.

).

[hxxr]

Of course. I'm sorry for not thinking.
Inquisitor is the last class I don't have at level 50 yet if that can be used as excuse. :o

Quote:I'm sure you're aware of it, but I just wanted to point out the non-linear scaling nature of armor damage reduction again for all of those who want to test the stacking of armor.

Exactly. And as far as I know the curve is true.
Yet I am still bothered by this, as from a game developer's point of view it doesn't make any sense that the debuffs get more efficient the more you apply! Quite the contrary actually, so while the theory can't be thrown over board it is still in conflict with common sense and good game design.

[Freehugs]

(03-13-2012 03:06 AM)hxxr Wrote:  Of course. I'm sorry for not thinking.
Inquisitor is the last class I don't have at level 50 yet if that can be used as excuse. :o

Quote:I'm sure you're aware of it, but I just wanted to point out the non-linear scaling nature of armor damage reduction again for all of those who want to test the stacking of armor.

Exactly. And as far as I know the curve is true.
Yet I am still bothered by this, as from a game developer's point of view it doesn't make any sense that the debuffs get more efficient the more you apply! Quite the contrary actually, so while the theory can't be thrown over board it is still in conflict with common sense and good game design.

The testing has been done in this forum somewhere, armor debuffs from different classes stack but not the same class. Bioware have stated this is a bug to be fixed, which would explain why it seems like poor design.

[Alvis]

(03-13-2012 12:47 AM)Caltiom Wrote:  Assuming 35% base dmg reduction from armor:

-20% armor will result in 30.1% dmg reduction ( not 28% )
-40% armor results in 24.4% dmg reduction ( not 21% )
-60% armor results in 17.7% dmg reduction ( not 14% )
-80% armor results in 9.7% dmg reduction ( not 7% )
-100% armor results of course in 0% dmg reduction

So assuming you have a spell which does 1000 damage without any armor debuff:
- with 1 armor debuff you'll get 1037.66 dmg

- with 2 armor debuffs and if debuffs don't stack you should still get 1037.66 dmg
- with 2 armor debuff and additive stacking you'd get 1085.21 dmg
- with 2 armor debuffs and multiplicative stacking you'd get 1074.6 dmg

- with 3 debuffs additive: 1146.98 dmg
- with 3 debuffs multiplicative: 1110.2 dmg

And so on. Oh and of course all those calculations are done using the armor to armor dmg reduction formula from the SWTOR formula list thread.

I'm quite surprised by the numbers you get because they seem wrong to me.

- with 1 armor debuff you should get 1000*69.9/65 = 1075
- with 2 additive armor debuff you should get 1000*75.6/65 = 1163
and so on
So the second armor debuff gives you an actual 8.19% damage increase instead of 7.5% if it is additive whereas it should be a bit lower than 7.5% if it is multiplicative (which means that each stack actually give you less than the previous one which is the reason why I think it is multiplicative).

The problem is no real testing have been done on this and we don't even know if and how they stack.

Edit : @Freehugs : ok so that answers the "if" part. We still have to find out if it is additive or multiplicative.