Seer | Corruption Spreadsheet

[MagicSN]

Another thing I noticed:

For Healing Trance in the stat scale formula you use 3 seconds * castspeed for the length of the cast (3 seconds being the time till the hot ends ticking). But for the Rejuvenate you use 1.5 seconds fixed (one GCD). Isn't this a contradiction? I would think of either using the time the dots take ticking for both spells (3 seconds and - depending if specced - 9 or 15 seconds) or a GCD for both, if the stat scale should be "per cast time". Additionally in case of the Healing Trance the spreadsheet takes alacrity into account, which should not be the case for the length of a hot-spell ticking ("3 seconds" vs. "3 seconds * castspeed").

Or is there an error in my thoughts here?

[Arulan]

(02-24-2012 10:45 PM)MagicSN Wrote:  

(02-24-2012 07:58 PM)Arulan Wrote:  It is 5 because after the initial instant tick, which has a different power coefficient value, the spell ticks 5 times throughout its full duration. Try using the spell in-game and count the number of ticks after the initial instant tick. And yes, this does take into account the talent.

Thanks a lot (as I do not have a Sage, I cannot try it out in game). Hmmm, this is pretty weird, so independent if I have the talent specced into or not, it will tick 5x? I am also wondering (though this is unrelated to this healing discussion) if I calculated the Dots in case of the DPS sage wrongly (up to now I assumed they tick "once per second", and gave 1 tick event per second with the amount of damage given on torhead for the dot). If this sort of approach was wrong for the healer sage, maybe it is wrong for the dps sage as well?

BTW: Hope you are fine that I use the maths used in your spreadsheet in my program. I particularly liked the stat scale calculations. I actually am thinking of implementing a weight-calculation-method which will calculate the weights for a given item, so that a player can compare these items based on their summed up weights (a bit of like the approach the "mr.robot" page on WoW does).

Currently my program is a big mixture of Formulation, Simulation and Weight methods. But I think it should be useful anyways, even if I don't use the same method of evaluation for every spec (I think Weights are pretty good for healers, though Simulation is pretty good for dps).

Another thing I noticed: You add *10*1.05*1.06 on the stat scales... so I assume I was wrong with my assumption that the Consular Buff and the Will talent add Additively, and in truth they are multiplicative (Well, I guess I should have tested this ingame) ?

I believe the talent Force-Shelter increases the duration but it also adequately adds another two ticks in those extra 6 seconds of the same value as the previous ticks. So, essentially the healing output is being increased along with the duration, HPS remains constant however. So, without the talent, it would only tick 3x. I'm not sure about the DPS DoTs at this time but I wouldn't be surprised if they were also on 3s intervals.

Yeah, feel free to use any information.

The Buff and Talent are indeed multiplicative.

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(02-24-2012 11:15 PM)MagicSN Wrote:  Another thing I noticed:

For Healing Trance in the stat scale formula you use 3 seconds * castspeed for the length of the cast (3 seconds being the time till the hot ends ticking). But for the Rejuvenate you use 1.5 seconds fixed (one GCD). Isn't this a contradiction? I would think of either using the time the dots take ticking for both spells (3 seconds and - depending if specced - 9 or 15 seconds) or a GCD for both, if the stat scale should be "per cast time". Additionally in case of the Healing Trance the spreadsheet takes alacrity into account, which should not be the case for the length of a hot-spell ticking ("3 seconds" vs. "3 seconds * castspeed").

Or is there an error in my thoughts here?

Healing Trance is not a HoT spell, it is a channeled spell. I assume that answers the other questions as well.

[MagicSN]

(02-24-2012 11:30 PM)Arulan Wrote:  I believe the talent Force-Shelter increases the duration but it also adequately adds another two ticks in those extra 6 seconds of the same value as the previous ticks. So, essentially the healing output is being increased along with the duration, HPS remains constant however. So, without the talent, it would only tick 3x. I'm not sure about the DPS DoTs at this time but I wouldn't be surprised if they were also on 3s intervals.

Thanks a lot!

Quote:Yeah, feel free to use any information.

The Buff and Talent are indeed multiplicative.

Thanks (will change my code to reflect this ^^)

Quote:Healing Trance is not a HoT spell, it is a channeled spell. I assume that answers the other questions as well.

Yes, indeed it does. Suddenly all makes sense. Thanks a lot for your help, this simplifies things a lot for me (taken that I do not have a Sage character).

[Kaedis]

Quote:Thanks a lot (as I do not have a Sage, I cannot try it out in game). Hmmm, this is pretty weird, so independent if I have the talent specced into or not, it will tick 5x? I am also wondering (though this is unrelated to this healing discussion) if I calculated the Dots in case of the DPS sage wrongly (up to now I assumed they tick "once per second", and gave 1 tick event per second with the amount of damage given on torhead for the dot). If this sort of approach was wrong for the healer sage, maybe it is wrong for the dps sage as well?

No. Resurgence/Rejuvenate ticks every 3 seconds for the duration of the HoT. Baseline, this means 3 ticks. Each point in Reconstruct/Force Shelter increases the duration by 3 seconds, and therefore adds 1 tick to the spell, for a total of 2 additional ticks (hence 5 ticks). Most DoT effects tick every 3 seconds as well, Crushing Darkness/Mind Crush being the except for Sorcs, as it ticks once per second for the duration.

Quote:The Buff and Talent are indeed multiplicative.

Actually, they are additive. Sorry, Arulan, the sheet is incorrect in that regard.

[Arulan]

(02-25-2012 05:20 AM)Kor Wrote:  

Quote:Thanks a lot (as I do not have a Sage, I cannot try it out in game). Hmmm, this is pretty weird, so independent if I have the talent specced into or not, it will tick 5x? I am also wondering (though this is unrelated to this healing discussion) if I calculated the Dots in case of the DPS sage wrongly (up to now I assumed they tick "once per second", and gave 1 tick event per second with the amount of damage given on torhead for the dot). If this sort of approach was wrong for the healer sage, maybe it is wrong for the dps sage as well?

No. Resurgence/Rejuvenate ticks every 3 seconds for the duration of the HoT. Baseline, this means 3 ticks. Each point in Reconstruct/Force Shelter increases the duration by 3 seconds, and therefore adds 1 tick to the spell, for a total of 2 additional ticks (hence 5 ticks). Most DoT effects tick every 3 seconds as well, Crushing Darkness/Mind Crush being the except for Sorcs, as it ticks once per second for the duration.

Quote:The Buff and Talent are indeed multiplicative.

Actually, they are additive. Sorry, Arulan, the sheet is incorrect in that regard.

Yeah, I tested it with some much larger changes in Willpower and it does appear you're right. Thanks for catching that. I updated my spreadsheet to reflect this.

[MagicSN]

(02-25-2012 06:24 AM)Arulan Wrote:  Yeah, I tested it with some much larger changes in Willpower and it does appear you're right. Thanks for catching that. I updated my spreadsheet to reflect this.

Ok, then I will update my program to make them additive again.

[TwoGod]

Quick question for you Arulan, are you taking into account the self buff for your calculation IE. Mark of Power or should I buff myself first then input the stats? Same question about stims.

[Arulan]

(03-13-2012 08:43 AM)TwoGod Wrote:  Quick question for you Arulan, are you taking into account the self buff for your calculation IE. Mark of Power or should I buff myself first then input the stats? Same question about stims.

The buff is taken into account when comparing stats, such as in the stat weights but not in the imputed stats.

So yes, you would have to buff yourself and then input those numbers. As for the stim, it is not automatically included anywhere on the spreadsheet. It is assumed you have one on when you input your own stats, or you could simply add/calculate it onto your base stats (with buff) if you don't want to waste an Exotech Resolve Stim. (ie 128*1.11 for the Willpower benefit)

[Arulan]

I updated my spreadsheet for 1.2. Let me know if you have any questions, comments, or suggestions. Thank you.

[Ears]

Thanks Arulan
I assume Build A/B/C are not talent point specific, just used to see the difference between two items?