SW/JK General Information | Simple Questions and Answers

[Xorak]

Has anyone done a comparison on what AC is better for dps that has played both in the beta either Marauder or Juggernaut? Any details would be awesome and thanks for answering.

[Poksu]

(11-15-2011 10:39 PM)Xorak Wrote:  Has anyone done a comparison on what AC is better for dps that has played both in the beta either Marauder or Juggernaut? Any details would be awesome and thanks for answering.

The general consensus would be that marauder is sligthly better dps but juggernaut has more survivability and utility. noone has definite answers tho at this point. numbers could change greatly once people attain some operation lvl gear.

[Alratan]

That's exceptionally difficult to test, for several reasons:

• Lack of people being at level 50 in good gear in both ACs.
• Very low sample size, even if the above were true.
• Few people practicing optimised rotations
• Would need varied group make-up options of other level 50s to ensure that any/all relevant buffs are present (even beyond fair tests - some classes may be highly reliant on class synergies).

[Freehugs]

Speaking for a purely theorycraft perspective, having looked at level 50 damage numbers, builds and rotations, I'd say that the DPS Juggernaut will be equal to the Marauder in PvP fall behind in PvE.
My reasoning is that Juggernauts have some good damage talents that make up for not having an off-hand, but they never have enough rage for their ideal rotations unless they're getting hit consistently. Whether it's Rage or Vengeance, Juggernauts just can't use all their high damage attacks as their cooldowns finish, they have to take extra time to build rage with lower damage attacks like Assault. However Juggernaut stances all build Rage from taking damage, which can make up the difference in PvP.
Marauder's don't have this problem, they can maintain their rotations in a vacuum without needing more than Battering Assault (and Force Charge in the case of Annihilation). Also Marauders have stronger AoE which is more use in PvE than PvP.

[Kaedis]

Frankly, it's far too early to determine which of the 3 dps specs will be the top of the heap. We don't even have accurate numbers to start theorycrafting with, or even a decent idea of what kind of stats a character will have in level 50 ops gear. Given the lack of option to convert between AC's, Bioware has a rather distinct responsibility to make sure Marauder and Juggernaut dps are acceptably close, and ideally that all 3 specs are class (well, all 5, if you include the two Rage specs). I doubt we'll have really solid numbers on the specs until we can get some solid testing done at 50, and even then, the numbers are going to be suspect until we can get a solid working simulator built, and that's going to require a massive amount of coding, as well as a massive amount of testing to determine how certain rather obfuscated mechanics precisely work (for example, the precise workings of the hit table). These tests will be all the harder (near impossible to run accurately, by my reckoning) if Bioware doesn't at least see fit to add a combat log.

[Hooligan]

(11-16-2011 12:35 PM)Freehugs Wrote:  Speaking for a purely theorycraft perspective, having looked at level 50 damage numbers, builds and rotations, I'd say that the DPS Juggernaut will be equal to the Marauder in PvP fall behind in PvE.
My reasoning is that Juggernauts have some good damage talents that make up for not having an off-hand, but they never have enough rage for their ideal rotations unless they're getting hit consistently. Whether it's Rage or Vengeance, Juggernauts just can't use all their high damage attacks as their cooldowns finish, they have to take extra time to build rage with lower damage attacks like Assault. However Juggernaut stances all build Rage from taking damage, which can make up the difference in PvP.
Marauder's don't have this problem, they can maintain their rotations in a vacuum without needing more than Battering Assault (and Force Charge in the case of Annihilation). Also Marauders have stronger AoE which is more use in PvE than PvP.

What The Sith Juggernaut generates rage from attacking unless the mechanic has changed 180 degrees. Sundering Assault, slash something or w/e those attacks generate rage. To make a Jugg solely generate rage from being attacked would be the Death Knell for the class. Maybe they get some additional rage from being attacked yes, but not solely?

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(11-20-2011 04:53 AM)Hooligan Wrote:  

(11-16-2011 12:35 PM)Freehugs Wrote:  Speaking for a purely theorycraft perspective, having looked at level 50 damage numbers, builds and rotations, I'd say that the DPS Juggernaut will be equal to the Marauder in PvP fall behind in PvE.
My reasoning is that Juggernauts have some good damage talents that make up for not having an off-hand, but they never have enough rage for their ideal rotations unless they're getting hit consistently. Whether it's Rage or Vengeance, Juggernauts just can't use all their high damage attacks as their cooldowns finish, they have to take extra time to build rage with lower damage attacks like Assault. However Juggernaut stances all build Rage from taking damage, which can make up the difference in PvP.
Marauder's don't have this problem, they can maintain their rotations in a vacuum without needing more than Battering Assault (and Force Charge in the case of Annihilation). Also Marauders have stronger AoE which is more use in PvE than PvP.

What ?? The Sith Juggernaut generates rage from attacking unless the mechanic has changed 180 degrees. Sundering Assault, slash something or w/e those attacks generate rage. To make a Jugg solely generate rage from being attacked would be the Death Knell for the class. Maybe they get some additional rage from being attacked yes, but not solely?

[Freehugs]

(11-20-2011 04:53 AM)Hooligan Wrote:  What The Sith Juggernaut generates rage from attacking unless the mechanic has changed 180 degrees. Sundering Assault, slash something or w/e those attacks generate rage. To make a Jugg solely generate rage from being attacked would be the Death Knell for the class. Maybe they get some additional rage from being attacked yes, but not solely?

Yes of course they generate rage from some attacks, but less than the Marauder. The Marauder can sustain strong Rage spending attacks while using much fewer of hte weaker Rage generating attacks. Warriors get EXTRA rage from being attacked which can make up the difference, but as PvE DPS the idea is to avoid being hit by stuff.

[Freehugs]

Fury

Fury
Sith Warrior (Marauder)

Activation time: Instant
Mirror: Centering

Activating an attack that spends rage and defeating opponents builds Fury. When 30 stacks of Fury are built, you become Furious, enabling the use of Berserk, Predation and Bloodthirst.

Quote:Fury
Activating an attack that spends rage and defeating opponents builds Fury. When 30 stacks of Fury are built, you become Furious, enabling the use of Berserk, Predation and Bloodthirst.

Fury builds at 2 points per Rage spending attack and 3 points per enemy killed. It last 60 seconds from the last time you gained points before disappearing.

Berserk

Berserk
Sith Warrior

Activation time: Instant
Mirror: Combat Focus

Requires and converts 30 stacks of Fury to go Berserk. Lasts for 6 charges. This effect varies based on your current lightsaber form: Shii-cho Form: Vicious Slash costs no rage and strikes 1 additional nearby enemy. Juyo Form: Increases the critical chance of your bleed attacks by 100% and causes bleed damage to heal your party for 1% of max health each tick. Ataru Form: Reduces the rage cost of Vicious Slash and Massacre by 1 and reduces their global cooldown by 0.5 seconds.

Quote:Berserk
Instant
Requires and converts 30 stacks of Fury to go Berserk. Lasts for 6 charges. This effect varies based on your current lightsaber form:

Shii-cho Form: Vicious Slash costs no rage and strikes 1 additional nearby enemy.
Juyo Form: Increases the critical chance of your bleed attacks by 100% and causes bleed damage to heal your party for 1% of max health each tick.
Ataru Form: Reduces the rage cost of Vicious Slash and Massacre by 1 and reduces their global cooldown by 0.5 seconds.

Berserk lasts for 6 Charges or 20 seconds, whichever comes first. You can't build Fury while Berserk is active.

[Primalthirst]

I agree with Freehugs, Juggs are probably going to be hard to balance since giving them too much rage generation from attacks will give them infinite resources when being attacked and not giving them enough will find them rage-starved when not being attacked.
In PvP this isn't so much of an issue except for limiting burst, but in PvE it could really hurt viability.

This is where I think the simplified Rage mechanics of SWTOR will break down, when you have a much larger rage bar like in WoW it is easier to make fine adjustments, in this situation +/- 1 Rage on certain abilities will drastically change how the rotation/priority system plays.

[Giamji]

At this point people should have a general idea of where Sith Warrior Juggernauts and Marauders stand in the grand scheme of the PvP scene. Where would you rank them among other classes? Which of the SW advanced classes is best in PvP? Which tree in your chosen AC appears to work best?