Threat, wtf is going on...

[Gorlough]

I guess the problem a lot of tanks have is, that the threat mechanics work different than in the games they used to play.
As an AoC veteran (tanking there as MT, OT and Necro *g*) these mechanics are quite familiar.
You have to sacrifice lots of survivability, if you have some triggerhappy, hard-hitting DPSs in your back for damage output. And you'll need to run a full threat buildup in the first few seconds of the fight (as others stated already) to not lose mob agro.
A thumb of rule is: the harder your DPSs hit, the more damage YOU as tank have to do. How you'll achieve this is up to you, either you gear for it, or you spec for it or both.
My AoC (pole-) tank usually ended up around rank 10 in total damage on a common raid (out of 24). The upside clearly was, that our top-DPS guys could nearly instantly wreak havoc and thus downing the bosses a lot quicker than usually - the downside was, that our healers had to do a much better job on keeping me alive.
It's all about trade-offs.

[Kindread]

Another thing to consider when dealing with Op bosses (or longer fights in general) is if you run the 21/2/18 spec try switching to Combustible Gas Cylinder durning the easier phases of the fights to increase your threat. The added damage seems (no combat log so cant say for sure) to be a greater threat boost than the Ion Gas Cylinder.

[Kaedis]

Quote:Threat dump feels iffy at best.

Once very important thing here is that according to the game files, your threat dump (this actually applies to all classes) has a threat mod of -0.25. Normally, this wouldn't be an issue, except that that is ThreatModifierPercent. Extrication (a Sorc's Lifegrip), which actually does work as a threat dump, has a ThreatModifierPercent of -25. Thus your threat dump (as well as every other class's) reduces your threat by only 0.25%. Basically, all of the quick 45-second CD class threat dumps in the game are functionally useless.

Quote:I believe it requires 110% of threat to pull off the tank at ranged, and 100% at melee.

Game files list it explicitly as 110% as melee and 130% as ranged (same thresholds as WoW). 100% for melee wouldn't make sense anyway, 2 targets doing the same TPS would just bounce threat back and forth.

[Poksu]

a simple decimal error most likely. aka will be fixed midsummer.

[Kaedis]

Quote:a simple decimal error most likely. aka will be fixed midsummer.

Aye, very understandable mistake. However, in the mean time, those abilities are functionally without effect and should not be counted on.

[Mesrith]

(02-02-2012 03:24 AM)Kor Wrote:  

Quote:a simple decimal error most likely. aka will be fixed midsummer.

Aye, very understandable mistake. However, in the mean time, those abilities are functionally without effect and should not be counted on.

That explains a lot, thanks. I'll tell my DPS they can save a few GCDs now.

[Kaedis]

Quote:That explains a lot, thanks. I'll tell my DPS they can save a few GCDs now.

Actually, the threat dumps are off the GCD, so no worries there. Still, they can save the keypress and attention.

[LagunaD]

(02-02-2012 03:19 AM)Kor Wrote:  Once very important thing here is that according to the game files, your threat dump (this actually applies to all classes) has a threat mod of -0.25. Normally, this wouldn't be an issue, except that that is ThreatModifierPercent. Extrication (a Sorc's Lifegrip), which actually does work as a threat dump, has a ThreatModifierPercent of -25. Thus your threat dump (as well as every other class's) reduces your threat by only 0.25%. Basically, all of the quick 45-second CD class threat dumps in the game are functionally useless.

Wow. Good to know. Just confirmed for myself, but from the client files, it looks like the Marauder/Sentinel dump (Force Camo, although the name in the client files is different) has -25, and therefore should work.

[Coriolis]

Well taunt puts you at the same threat as someone else (who had 130% more then you in order to pull from range), who now has to get another 30% on top on of his previous threat to get the mob off of you. I call that "stealing" threat, but it's really semantics. My point was that when you're at the start of the fight 30% of your threat is maybe 2-3 abilities, but a minute in it's a ton of threat, so threat tends to only be an issue at the start. It also means that it's to your advantage to try to delay using a aoe taunt for trash, so long as you can do it without the dps dying, so that you can get relatively high threat on everything. For example on aoe packs I usually rush in, smash, do sweeping+enrage, then build rage as I start loosing most of the pack, and aoe taunt +ragedump after I've let the dps do some decent aoe damage. It's not perfect but you can hold most of the aoe packs most of the time this way.

As for gearing for threat - personally I've just stuck to the default sets up to now (out of lazyness), columni, and now 4/5 rakata, which includes some accuracy (ok) and surge (which is really worthless to a jugg). I'm biochem so if I really feel the need for threat I switch to the +str stim. Since juggs get no +crit chance or damage talents in the standard tank spec, I'd stack power for threat since crit/surge work best when you already have a fair bit of both along with talents that involve crit/crit damage. PTs however get some +crit and +crit damage talents which probably makes crit/surge better for you. Hard to tell how exactly without dps meters.

One thing I don't know - does guard reduce threat from range or not? I've always assumed that it only works in short range, which makes it nearly worthless on ranged in most fights.

[LagunaD]

Guard can be applied up to 30m away, but the effects only work within 15m.

The buff changes appearance depending on whether you are in/out of range, so if the target really wants to be guarded, they can watch the buff and move when it indicates they are too far away.