Threaded Mode | Linear Mode

Gaahl · 02-02-2012, 03:59 AM

There is a relic that drops from nightmare Karragas palace (The puzzle droid boss) that I got. Its called Plasma burst Device.

+77 endurance
Equip: Damaging attacks have a 30% chance to deal 168 additional elemental damage to the target. This effect can only occur once every 4.5 seconds, and shares the limit with similar damage dealing effects.

This is what the relic says. I am using this and it seems to proc a lot, although there is really no way of calculating the exact proc rate.

**Masterkiller** · (This post was last modified: 02-02-2012 04:50 AM by Masterkiller.)

You can use Bloodthirst

Sith Warrior (Marauder)

Activation time: Instant
Cooldown: 300 secs
Mirror: Inspiration

Requires and converts 30 stacks of Fury to issue Bloodthirst to you and your party, increasing all damage and healing dealt by 15%. Lasts 15 seconds.

/ Inspiration

Jedi Knight (Sentinel)

Activation time: Instant
Cooldown: 300 secs
Mirror: Bloodthirst

Requires and converts 30 stacks of Centering to inspire you and your party, increasing all damage and healing dealt by 15%. Lasts 15 seconds.

during Infernal Council without consequence.

Marek · 02-02-2012, 01:10 PM

Bad news for our Pacify/Obfuscate trick folks:

Jedi Knight

Sentinel
Pacify: This ability can no longer be used on Operation Boss enemies.

Sith Warrior

Marauder
Obfuscate: This ability can no longer be used on Operation Boss enemies.

From the Patch 1.1.2 Test Realm notes.

Sad

**Masterkiller** · (This post was last modified: 02-02-2012 01:14 PM by Masterkiller.)

We are in the chat room now running the math on the Deep Wound and Hemorrhage changes. It is definitely a decrease and we are posting on test server forums to prove it.

**Masterkiller** · (This post was last modified: 02-02-2012 02:03 PM by Masterkiller.)

Quote:Marauder/Sentinel changes:
Hemorrhage: Now increases damage dealt by bleed effects by 5% per point.
Bleedout: Now correctly modifies critical damage dealt by bleed effects.
Changes to Hemorrhage and Bleedout result in an overall increase in Damage Per Second.

The old system:
Bleedout is currently giving us 30% damage to all bleed effects, not crit chance.
Hemorrhage is adding 4% instead of 6% additional damage to bleed effects. The first point provides ~2% increase, each additional point is ~1%.

New system proposed:
Hemorrhage: 15% bleed damage increase
Bleedout: 30% critical multiplier increase

Using a the following stats as an example:
131 unmodified unskilled Rupture/Deadly Saber dot
25% crit chance
70% crit multiplier

Old System
In the old system with Bleedout, Hemorrhage:
131 * 1.3 * 1.04 = 177 normal dot
131 * 1.3 * 1.04 * 1.7 = 301 critical dot

To explain those numbers we have the 131 base dot (no skills). We multiply that number times 1.3 for the 30% increase we WERE receiving from Bleedout. We then multiply times 1.04 for the 4% increase we WERE receiving from Hemorrhage. In the 2nd row, we multiply 1.7 for the critical multiplier.

Let's normalize that across 1000 dots. With at 25% crit chance that is 750 normal dots and 250 critical dots.
177 * 750 = 132,750 normal dot damage
301 * 250 = 75,250 critical damage
Grand total = 208,000

New System
In the new system with Bleedout, Hemorrhage:
131 * 1.15 = 150.65 normal dot
131 * 1.15 * 2 = 301 critical dot

131 is still our base unskilled dot. The 1.15 is the new Hemorrhage (3 points at 5% for each point = 15%). The 1.3 is the "corrected" Bleedout critical multiplier number. We are multiplying times 2 because 70% is the base critical multiplier and Bleedout provides an additional 30% critical multiplier. We would assume it is additive. If that is incorrect, the critical dot is 332 (and the final number still show new system a dps loss).

So lets normalize the new system across 1000 dots. Same as above, 25% base crit chance gives us 750 normal dots and 250 critical dots.
151 * 750 = 114,000
301 * 250 = 75,250
Grand total = 189,250

What about Juyo form and Juyo Mastery? The new system does value critical chance more than the old system, but you would still need over 98% crit chance for the new system to overtake the old system.

TL;DR
The old system and new system critical dot amounts are exactly the same. All that has changed is non-crit dots will be less than the old system's non-crit dots.

This is a damage decrease.

Tumri · (This post was last modified: 02-02-2012 02:02 PM by Tumri.)

I find it hard to believe that Bioware would specifically state that it was a buff when it was a major nerf.

Are you sure that the Bleedout buff was effecting the total damage of the DoT and not just the base damage(as in the damage the DoT does with no gear on)?

If the bleedout bug isn't effecting the bonus damage from gear then this would indeed be the buff they promised because the extra 9% would apply to the damage from gear as well.

neocoma · 02-02-2012, 02:17 PM

(02-02-2012 01:56 PM)Tumri Wrote: I find it hard to believe that Bioware would specifically state that it was a buff when it was a major nerf.

Are you sure that the Bleedout buff was effecting the total damage of the DoT and not just the base damage(as in the damage the DoT does with no gear on)?

If the bleedout bug isn't effecting the bonus damage from gear then this would indeed be the buff they promised because the extra 9% would apply to the damage from gear as well.

So basically they are fixing a tooltip bug which favored marauders in damage terms. That is okay. However, to claim it will be an increase in damage terms, that is a lie and a cheap one I might add.

Atrahasis · 02-02-2012, 05:32 PM

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/1075....1.2-Notes

Scroll down to the bottom. Ill quote the post.

Quote: Bleedout only applies to critical strike damage, so the multiplication of 1.30 on normal cannot be applied. Further, the old system of hemmorrhage was 1.06, not 1.04.
Following your sample, the damage under the old system woul be
NORMAL 131*1.06=138.86
CRIT 131*1.06*1.30*1.7=307

Under the new system, the damage would be this:
NORMAL 131*1.15=150.65
CRIT 131*1.15*1.30*1.7=333.
There is a damage increase. Your calculations were slightly off because on the calculation of the new system, you added the damage multipliers while in the old system you multiplied them with the base damage.

**Masterkiller** · 02-02-2012, 11:09 PM

That would be true if the old system worked the way the tooltips described them. In our old Annihilation thread we long ago proved that Hemorrhage and Bleedout did not work as intended. Bleedout actually provided 30% multiplicative damage increase to Rupture and Deadly Saber.

If you compare what the old system described itself, it could be considered a dps increase. However, since the old system worked completely different and provided more damage than they intended, this is a dps loss for actual in game numbers.

**Masterkiller** · (This post was last modified: 02-03-2012 03:54 AM by Masterkiller.)

Efficiency value of Vicious Slash

Sith Warrior

Rage: -3
Range: Melee (4m)
Activation time: Instant
Damage Type: Weapon
Mirror: Slash

Slashes the target for <> damage. Attacks with both weapons if dual wielding.

/ Slash

Jedi Knight

Focus: -3
Range: Melee (4m)
Activation time: Instant
Damage Type: Weapon
Mirror: Vicious Slash

Slashes the target for [?] damage. Attacks with both weapons if dual wielding.

versus the GCD value of Annihilate

Sith Warrior (Marauder)

Rage: -5
Range: Melee (4m)
Activation time: Instant
Cooldown: 12 secs
Damage Type: Weapon
Mirror: Merciless Slash

Strikes the target with both lightsabers for [?] weapon damage. Each use of this ability grants Annihilator for 15 seconds, lowering the cooldown of your next Annihilate by 1.5 seconds. Stacks up to 3 times. Requires two lightsabers.

/ Merciless Slash

Jedi Knight (Sentinel)

Focus: -5
Range: Melee (4m)
Activation time: Instant
Cooldown: 12 secs
Damage Type: Weapon
Mirror: Annihilate

Strikes the target with both lightsabers for () weapon damage. Each use of this ability grants Merciless for 15 seconds, lowering the cooldown of your next Merciless Slash by 1.5 seconds. Stacks up to 3 times. Requires two lightsabers.

has been one of my focus points lately.

Using my current stats with Mark of Power, Unnatural Might, and Rakata Might Stim:

	Damage per GCD	Damage per resource	Rage cost
Annihilate	2784	696	4
Rupture	1997	998	2
Vicious Slash	1499	749	2
Force Scream	1645	411	4

Firstly, you shouldn't use Force Scream unless you are using it as a finisher and Vicious Throw and Annihilate are on CD. It's horrible resource management.

Vicious Slash has greater damage per point of resource. Annihilate has greater damage per GCD but is twice as expensive. The missing factor here is Deadly Saber

Sith Warrior (Marauder)

Rage: -3
Activation time: Instant
Cooldown: 12 secs
Mirror: Overload Saber

Charges your lightsabers with deadly energy for 15 seconds, causing your next 3 successful melee attacks to make the target bleed for [?] internal damage over 6 seconds. Stacks up to 3 times. This effect cannot occur more than once every 1.5 seconds.

/ Overload Saber

Jedi Knight (Sentinel)

Focus: -3
Activation time: Instant
Cooldown: 12 secs
Mirror: Deadly Saber

Charges your lightsabers with deadly energy for 15 seconds, causing your next 3 successful melee attacks to make the target burn for [?] elemental damage over 6 seconds. Stacks up to 3 times. This effect cannot occur more than once every 1.5 seconds.

. It is more difficult to show it's value because it can vary wildly. You can get 3 stacks of DS up and roll it infinitely if you wanted. It would require Smash and Force Scream in the rotation which have poor efficiency. Each tick of Deadly Saber is 243.

For this exercise I'm simply going to pop Deadly Saber and apply all 3 stacks over the next 3 GCD's.
GCD 1: 243 damage (1 stack)
GCD 2: 485 damage (2 stack)
GCD 3: 728 damage (3 stack)
GCD 4: no damage
GCD 5: 728 damage (3 stack) - DS falls off

Quick note about DS/OS, the first tick of damage occurs on the same GCD that you apply it. So when you apply your 2nd stack, that GCD receives the full damage of both stacks.

So for 3 Rage/Focus we get 2184 damage or 728 damage per point of resource.

	Damage per GCD	Damage per resource	Rage cost
Annihilate	2784	696	4
Rupture	1997	998	2
Vicious Slash	1499	749	2
Deadly Saber	2184	728	3

DS/OS is off the GCD so the damage per GCD doesn't really apply but it doesn't cost a GCD either so putting it into the table this way is acceptable imo.

We have 3 GCD's from the time DS falls off to the time we need to refresh it if we apply all 3 stacks in the manner above. (It might be a dps increase to work a smash between the 2nd and 3rd applications to get an additional 485 tick).

During those 3 GCD's we need to plan to have enough resources to use Deadly Saber and Rupture if it's available and about to fall off or is already off and waiting on a proc. For this reason, Vicious Slash/Slash should have higher priority than Annihilate. The argument is Annihilate + (Assault or Battering Assault).

In my current gear my Battering Assault

Sith Warrior (Marauder)

Rage: 6
Range: Melee (4m)
Activation time: Instant
Cooldown: 15 secs
Damage Type: Weapon
Mirror: Zealous Strike

Strikes the target multiple times with both lightsabers, dealing (LvlRankDmgAmnt * 0.05 WeaponDamage * 0.5) weapon damage and building 6 rage. Requires two lightsabers.

/ Zealous Strike

Jedi Knight (Sentinel)

Focus: 6
Range: Melee (4m)
Activation time: Instant
Cooldown: 5 secs
Damage Type: Weapon
Mirror: Battering Assault

Strikes the target multiple times with both lightsabers, dealing (LvlRankDmgAmnt * 0.05 WeaponDamage * 0.5) weapon damage and building 6 focus. Requires two lightsabers.

averages for 767 and my Assault

Sith Warrior

Rage: 2
Range: Melee (4m)
Activation time: Instant
Damage Type: Weapon
Mirror: Strike

Inflicts <> damage with a series of quick melee attacks. Builds 2 Rage. Attacks with both weapons if dual wielding.

/ Strike

Jedi Knight

Focus: 2
Range: Melee (4m)
Activation time: Instant
Damage Type: Weapon
Mirror: Assault

Inflicts <<1>> damage with a series of quick melee attacks. Generates 2 Focus. Strikes with both weapons if dual wielding.

averages for 881.

Option 1: Vicious Slash -> Vicious Slash -> Deadly Saber + Rupture = 7 net rage loss and 7,179 paid for damage (resource has been spent)
Option 2: Annihilate -> Battering Assault -> Deadly Saber + Rupture = 5 net rage loss and 7,732 paid for damage
Option 3: Annihilate -> Assault -> Deadly Saber + Rupture = 7 net rage loss and 7,846 paid for damage
Option 4: Vicious Slash -> Battering Assault -> Deadly Saber + Rupture = 1 net rage loss and 6,447 paid for damage

I'm not drawing conclusions yet, so perhaps others can chime in on their thoughts of the above.

The next evaluation I am going to look at is if the 15% critical chance from Brutality/Swift Slash would bring the damage/value gap closer together when using Vicious Slash/Slash. I am also interested in the value of working a Smash in the GCD between the 2nd and 3rd applications of Deadly Saber/Overload Saber.

Attached is my resource view from the damage ability tool I am creating and will be releasing sometime in the near future. The resource view for Deadly Saber is 2 ticks for 1 stack. You will have to do the math yourself for adding up the stacks and ticks.