The Shield Tech/Shield Spec Compendium

[Keren]

thanks for the clarification, found your thread over at swtor.com and will re-direct our tanks to you

[Ino]

(05-08-2013 04:52 AM)dipstik Wrote:  this is what i suggest based on maximizing mitigation: http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/character/42...637ae825f7

here is the optimal build, where the number to the left is the sum of you defense rating, shield rating and absorb rating, and then the numbers are the optimal values of those.

{1600,{defense->912,shield->583,absorb->105}}
{1700,{defense->920,shield->620,absorb->160}}
{1800,{defense->929,shield->656,absorb->215}}
{1900,{defense->939,shield->693,absorb->269}}
{2000,{defense->949,shield->729,absorb->322}}
{2100,{defense->959,shield->766,absorb->375}}
{2200,{defense->971,shield->803,absorb->427}}
{2300,{defense->983,shield->839,absorb->478}}
{2400,{defense->993,shield->878,absorb->530}}
{2500,{defense->989,shield->929,absorb->582}}
{2600,{defense->984,shield->984,absorb->633}}

those numbers assume you are using oil slick on CD. if you dont take that assumption into account you get something like:

total d s a mit slope/int
2000 846 740 414 0.291893758 -2.78754E-05
2100 828 802 470 0.289071082 0.347606111
2200 814 862 524 0.28625815
2300 803 921 577 0.283458936
2400 794 978 628 0.280676809
2500 788 1034 679 0.277914609
2600 783 1089 728 0.275174771

pay no attention to the mit and slope numbers. if u dont have EWH or WH relics, then on use shield is next best

Would you mind sharing how you determined those stat values to be optimal? I understand that you have total, d, s, a, and your assumed mitigation based on that. I believe my spreadsheet (in my signature) goes very in depth on optimizing mitigation for each tank and these Vanguard values seem to be pretty far off from my results. I'm not saying that you are wrong because I am no where near perfect but I would like to know how you came up with those numbers.

However, based on your numbers, it looks like you may be using one of the very outdated tanking spreadsheets, such as LagunaD's spreadsheet or Agrath's spreadsheet.

[dipstik]

here is my thread: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=567164

i have attahcd the speadsheet, which is a modified version of what KBN uploaded during the PTS. i just use excel solver to optimize the mitigation function varying defense and absorb, and sometimes shield, depending on if the optimal shield value is below the minimum you can get with enhancements etc. you need to make sure to give good guesses otherwise youwill end up in a lcoal extrema, as opposed to something more global. KBN uses mathematica.

you are most likey using different assumptions about they amount of the types of damage, which kews the numbers a lot. most are also not privy to the fact that about half od melee/ranged energy/kinetic damage comes at 90% accuracy, which is like giving yourself a 10% defense boost.
all of this assumes:

38.965% of damage is melee/ranged kinetic/energy at 90% accuracy
38.965% of damage is melee/ranged kinetic/energy at 100% accuracy
20.7% of damage is force.tech kinetic/energy damage
1.37% of damage is force/tech internal/elemetal damage

these numbers come from KBN analysis of SnV HM damage

base armor rating for light armor at arcanian is 2894
base armor rating for light armor at underworld is 2999
base armor rating for heavy armor at arcanian is 5466
base armor rating for light armor at underworld is 5666

post armor mitigation:

(0.7793*(1-dr)*(0.5*(1-d-0.1)*(1-s*a)+0.5*(1-d)*(1-s*a))+0.207*(1-dr)*(1-r)*(1-s*a)+0.0137*(1-ir)*(1-r))

where d-0.1 from is from 90% accuracy attack, 0.5 from fraction melee/ranged kinetic/energy at 90% accuracy
dr is damage reduction form armor, to kinetic and energy damage
d is defense fraction
s is shield fraction
a is absorb fraction
ir is internal resistance
r is resiatance

d: 0.30*(1-(1-(0.01/0.3))^((Def_Rating/55)/1.2)) + other stuff
s: 0.5*(1-(1-(0.01/0.5))^((Shield_Rating/55)/0.78))
a: 0.50*(1-(1- (0.01/0.5))^((Abs_Rating/55)/0.65))

Vanguard http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/characte...d-03637ae825f7

rebraced armor: 16% armor rating
shield vents: 2% shield
ablative upgrades: 4% absorb
ion screen: 2% kinetic reduciton, 2% internal
deflective plating: 4% defense

heat screen: 3% for 6 seconds after heat blast
heat blast: during heat blast: (25+0)*1.5+(25+1)*1.5+(25+2)*1.5*1+(25+3)1.5
taking time averaged for both gives (3*6+25*1.5+26*1.5+27*1.5+28*1.5)*(1/12) = 14.75% absorb. KBN got 15.33. so im just going to call this number 15%.

power armor: 2% kinetic reduction, 2% internal reduction
integrated cardio package: 3% endurance

stance: 5% kinetic damage reuction, 5% internal damage reduction, 60% increase armor rating, 15% shield chance,

extra 1.5% armor rating from bug for stance.

set bonus: 2% resistance, 2% defense
resist buff: 10% internal resistance

base def of 5%, base absorb of 20% and base shield of 5%

[Ino]

After further review, it looks as though we do have very similar calculations between our spreadsheets. There are a lot of points to discuss but I'll just start with a few here.

First, it seems as though you are dealing with a much larger stat pool so that explains the difference between our stats. I tried to make my stat pool between D, S, & A to match the current in-game gear, with the best tier being Underworld gear. I may be missing something but after checking a few vendors, it looks as though the BiS stat pool is 2309. Your spreadsheet looks like it just throws a large number without comparing to actual in-game gear. You have 3000 for Guardians and Vanguards and 2600 for Shadows. I did just do a quick check at the vendors so I could have missed what the best gear looks like but my results are in the M, N, & O columns of each of my tanking spreadsheets. This is how I came up with 2309. If you check the formula for each rating (cells C7 through C9), you'll see how that number came about.

After you have got all BiS gear, 790 Shield looks as though it is the lowest you can get your shield rating, seeing as it automatically comes in all the enhancements, earpiece, and implants. So, while it may be optimal to have lower shield for some tanks, as shown in your spreadsheet, it is not an accurate depiction of how tanks can actually gear, and thus is irrelevant.

Another thing you should consider is the relics for each tank class. When comparing the Shield Amplification and the Fortunate Redoubt, you have to realize that the Fortunate Redoubt is a straight 30% chance but the Shield Amplification is dependent upon your shield chance minus your defense chance.

I may not have the best formula for this but I use this for Fortunate Redoubt --
=14+1.5*(1-0.30)/0.30
which, if you are being attacked every 1.5s, gives the relic a realistic cooldown of 17.5s downtime and of course the 6s uptime.
When looking at the Shield Amplification, my formula looks like this --
=14+1.5*(1-%)/%
%=(100-D)*(S/100)/100
Now, depending on how much shield and defense you have, also determines the effective cooldown of the Shield Amplification relic. Vanguards and especially Shadows will be much higher than the 30% chance so they gain a greater benefit by using the Shield Amplification versus the Fortunate Redoubt, which is reserved for Guardians.

My spreadsheet uses the up and down time to calculate the average EDR.

Most of the other stuff is pretty much the same. I don't have time to discuss everything at this moment but another thing I noticed was we had slightly different values for the amount that Blade Barrier absorbed for Guardians.
Here is my formula, using Underworld gear, as shown in the same columns I mentioned earlier (M, N, & O).
1403.28 is the amount absorbed --
=(1*(((20*14+1677)*0.17+1776*0.14)*1.05)+0.05*11180)*1.2

As I said before, I'm not perfect but I'm continuously improving. I'm sure we'll have more to discuss and I look forward to your response.

[dipstik]

i just assumed it takes 3 seconds to get the proc from the 20s cooldown relics. i determined the post armor mitigation with the relics active and time averaged those values, and not the amount of stat that you get, to get a better estimate of relic superiority.

i have amr profiles up for each tank for what i think is best, many of which have crafted ears and implants (except vanguards), and juggs could use the crafted enhancements for better mitigation, but they would lose around 2k health for .04% better mitigation.

i dont have the equation for blade barrier in there i just used 1400. i have used the equation

blade barrier: (0.05 * 11180 + BonusHealing) * 1.2

which is the same as yours, for finding how many points of strength you would need to get for 1 point of mitigation to make it worth the trade.

also, you can get 240 more in your stat pool from elite war hero relics.

[Ino]

(05-21-2013 01:30 AM)dipstik Wrote:  i just assumed it takes 3 seconds to get the proc from the 20s cooldown relics. i determined the post armor mitigation with the relics active and time averaged those values, and not the amount of stat that you get, to get a better estimate of relic superiority.

i have amr profiles up for each tank for what i think is best, many of which have crafted ears and implants (except vanguards), and juggs could use the crafted enhancements for better mitigation, but they would lose around 2k health for .04% better mitigation.

i dont have the equation for blade barrier in there i just used 1400. i have used the equation

blade barrier: (0.05 * 11180 + BonusHealing) * 1.2

which is the same as yours, for finding how many points of strength you would need to get for 1 point of mitigation to make it worth the trade.

also, you can get 240 more in your stat pool from elite war hero relics.

I left 1 relic blank so users could choose what they wanted. Of course, a EWH would be the best choice for your 2nd relic but since not everyone kept theirs from before 2.0, I left it blank and the numbers are easily adjusted since I have already put all the formulas in place for the spreadsheet user.

I see your character sheets with the gear but I disagree that every tank should use the Fortunate Redoubt relic. As I explained, it is only a straight 30% chance but the Shield Amplification depends on the shield and defense of the player. With my current setup, the Shadow would have a 41% chance to proc the shield relic, Vanguards 32%, and Guardians 24%. This is why the Guardians would use the Fortunate Redoubt but other 2 classes use the Shield Amplification relic with their EWH.

[dipstik]

what is the time between procs for the shield relic assuming swing time of 0.87 seconds?

and for def proc?

from what i can tell (1-d)*s gives the shield chance, so your numbers are close enough... i get around 3% difference from your numbers but whatever...

def proc requires 3.3 swings, with 1 swing everyt 0.87 seconds (that was calced by JBN for SnV HM) gives a proc every 2.87 seconds, so my assumption of 3 seconds is not far off.

40% chance for shadows gives 2.175

so the differenace in uptime is between 6/22.175-6/23=0.01... 1% difference. according to my calc, you need a 25% increase in uptime for the shield proc to do better than the def proc. and note im not giving defense what is deserves since im using 3 seconds instead of 2.87.

a similar argument exists for vanguards.

i think the key is the static defense you get.