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Kaedis · 02-01-2012, 05:16 AM

Quote:I think kor meant to say 'no definitive breakpoints' instead of 'now'.

Quote:there is on the other hand a diminishing return plot but that's not really what you're looking for.

That would be here, btw.

Maxyim · 02-02-2012, 10:49 AM

(02-01-2012 05:16 AM)Kor Wrote:
Quote:I think kor meant to say 'no definitive breakpoints' instead of 'now'.

Quote:there is on the other hand a diminishing return plot but that's not really what you're looking for.

That would be here, btw.

Hey, that is great!

Let me get a quick clarification. This is at level 50, and the X axis is cumulative + to the appropriate stat from items, correct? Therefore, 400 surge takes you to +40% crit damage, right?

What about talents like Metic. Kept Blades, which grants +30% crit damage? Several questions here: which gets calculated first? Either it takes 150 surge to get to 20%, then 30% from talent to 50% cap, or the 30% is applied first and then you need (400 - 200) surge to hit 40%? Or does the talent stack with the stat and take us up to 80% increase?

Looking at the "Next 10" chart; we can make the observations that going past 3-400 surge at expense of other stats is probably not ideal, whereas crit seems to always give good bang for the buck. I am inclined to discount accuracy as our tech attacks do not seem to miss...

Kaedis · 02-02-2012, 03:30 PM

Quote:Let me get a quick clarification. This is at level 50, and the X axis is cumulative + to the appropriate stat from items, correct? Therefore, 400 surge takes you to +40% crit damage, right?

Correct.

Quote:What about talents like Metic. Kept Blades, which grants +30% crit damage? Several questions here: which gets calculated first? Either it takes 150 surge to get to 20%, then 30% from talent to 50% cap, or the 30% is applied first and then you need (400 - 200) surge to hit 40%? Or does the talent stack with the stat and take us up to 80% increase?

Percentage effects stat additively after the rating conversion. Thus if you had 400 Surge rating and 5/5 Reverberation (Lightning T6), it would convert over to ~40% surge, putting you 190%, then add 50% to it for the spells affected by the talent (Affliction, Chain Lightning, and Thundering Blast) for a 240% multiplier for those spells.

Quote:Looking at the "Next 10" chart; we can make the observations that going past 3-400 surge at expense of other stats is probably not ideal, whereas crit seems to always give good bang for the buck. I am inclined to discount accuracy as our tech attacks do not seem to miss...

This is hard to gauge, actually. Many people make the mistake of looking at the surge graph and mentally drawing a threshold at ~40%, saying anything beyond is wasted, and anything before is good. It's a smooth scaling curve, and it's not that much sharper than the other curves, it just limits higher so it looks sharper. All of the stats continually decrease as you gain then, and it takes some rather in-depth math to provide an analytical value for each.

Also, yes, your tech attacks cannot miss, only Rifle Shot and Overload Shot.

**CaseyTheRetard** · 02-02-2012, 04:42 PM

(02-02-2012 03:30 PM)Kor Wrote: Also, yes, your tech attacks cannot miss, only Rifle Shot and Overload Shot.

Cull and Weakening Blast in the Lethality tree are also Ranged attacks.

Halfkarma · 02-03-2012, 02:16 AM

I honestly have never missed with cull or weakening blast. I am not sure if i have been lucky or accuracy is high but never missed as of yet in PVE

Anonymousy · 02-03-2012, 07:30 PM

(02-03-2012 02:16 AM)Halfkarma Wrote: I honestly have never missed with cull or weakening blast. I am not sure if i have been lucky or accuracy is high but never missed as of yet in PVE

not a surprise. cull has tech component http://www.torhead.com/ability/dZW3AiK/cull
so i assume you might just see some smaller numbers if the range part doesn't hit instead of a 'miss'.

Kaedis · 02-03-2012, 09:35 PM

Quote:Cull and Weakening Blast in the Lethality tree are also Ranged attacks.

Bah, Lethality. It's far too energy hungry to be really potent in a raid setting.

Halfkarma · 02-03-2012, 11:34 PM

(02-03-2012 07:30 PM)Anonymousy Wrote:
(02-03-2012 02:16 AM)Halfkarma Wrote: I honestly have never missed with cull or weakening blast. I am not sure if i have been lucky or accuracy is high but never missed as of yet in PVE
not a surprise. cull has tech component http://www.torhead.com/ability/dZW3AiK/cull
so i assume you might just see some smaller numbers if the range part doesn't hit instead of a 'miss'.

that makes sense, i have since then started piling on accuracy if i can find it in small doses here and there

(02-03-2012 09:35 PM)Kor Wrote:
Quote:Cull and Weakening Blast in the Lethality tree are also Ranged attacks.

Bah, Lethality. It's far too energy hungry to be really potent in a raid setting.

it is very potent in raid setting but you have to be smart about it. You do amazing dmg versus bosses and mini bosses bc you can constantly keep poisons on them. You just have to make sure you spec right and not put points into things that dont affect PVE. Get a good rotation which they talk about in the dps part of the forums and you will see your dps go up and possibly surpass your dps with concealment.

Coriolis · 02-07-2012, 02:55 AM

The thing is, weakening blast does weak damage anyways, it's mostly for the debuff so missing isn't very consequential (it's a series of shot so at least one will practically always hit). And Cull is half-tech as well.

And someone did run the numbers and lethality came out just a little behind concealment, in theory. In practice, the rotation is so much more a pain to do completely optimally that concealment is probably better. It's also a pain when it comes to killing anything weaker then an elite.