Tanking stat spreadsheet online

[Neokarasu]

(02-14-2012 08:10 AM)TehScat Wrote:  However, every tank and healer who knows how this works will say that a 26k hp tank with next to no mitigation or avoidance is just as bad as a tank with 14k hp and massive avoidance and mitigation...

That is a faulty assumption for this game.

In WoW, you can get your described scenario due to Gems and Enchants. One can essentially stack HP or Dodge/Parry/Mastery. However in this game, you don't get one without the other. You get more defensive stats when you get better item modifications. Better item modifications will always give more Endurance than the previous level of modifications. I.e., Something Enhancement 25 will have more than Something Enhancement 23.

The biggest change you get is when you change the type of Enhancement. Due to BW itemization, the option is between Accuracy (or Surge) and more defensive stats. Sometimes you have to go down one Enhancement level to get pure Avoidance but the difference is rarely 26k HP vs 14k HP. The most you'll get is 26k HP and 25k HP if they both have avoidance stats. You'll get a bigger difference when comparing more threat-focused gearing versus a more avoidance-focused gearing.

[TehScat]

Well, the crafted gear for various slots (notably ear, implants, but also slots like bracers) all have very high secondary stats but lower primary stats. This difference is quite large - the crafted pieces typically lose you 40+ endurance per piece over Rakata equivalents, however they give a proportional gain in (and often more preferred) secondary stat/s. However, the numbers are arbitrary - it was to prove a point. Endurance has a place in tanking, it has to be considered, otherwise if you consider only squishiness/EDR then everyone would gear for their 4-piece then mastercraft every other slot.

[demoncrat]

(02-15-2012 01:18 AM)Neokarasu Wrote:  The biggest change you get is when you change the type of Enhancement. Due to BW itemization, the option is between Accuracy (or Surge) and more defensive stats. Sometimes you have to go down one Enhancement level to get pure Avoidance but the difference is rarely 26k HP vs 14k HP. The most you'll get is 26k HP and 25k HP if they both have avoidance stats. You'll get a bigger difference when comparing more threat-focused gearing versus a more avoidance-focused gearing.

Don't overwrite your accuracy enhancements from Rakata tanking gear. Go down one level of enhancement if you need to, but keep it in your cargo hold. I have a suspicion we'll see level 51 and level 52 mobs in the next operation. All that accuracy on all the tanking Rakata sets can't be a mistake that Bioware is oblivious of.

[TehScat]

I think you give them too much credit, demoncrat. If accuracy is needed next tier, it is not due to forethought - it will be them saying "shit, how are we gonna make Accuracy actually do anything? I know, lets stack defenses/levels on all encounters!" Endgame has been poorly thought out and tested overall - poor itemization, easy content, terrible crafting system, no credit sinks. Its still worth playing, but given they had ~8 years worth of other MMOs to use as case studies, they really did fuck it up. It can only improve though. I wish they'd stop fucking around with Legacy character customization options, and actually fix the game for their majority playerbase at the level cap, now.

[Capu]

Do you have any idea how I can factor the Tank Relic from 4th Boss Palce Hard into the spreadsheet?

The Trinket gives 395 absorb for 6s roughly every 20s after a shieldblock. (maybe only every 22-25s, if you get badluck on shieldproc)

My guess was since you can more or less count on 18s uptime per minute I'd calculate 18/60 * 395 = 118.5 added absorption rating?

[Ashardis]

(02-19-2012 03:00 AM)Capu Wrote:  My guess was since you can more or less count on 18s uptime per minute I'd calculate 18/60 * 395 = 118.5 added absorption rating?

That would be somewhat okay if absorbtion rating to abs% was linear, but it's not - it's logaritmical.

In my Assasin tank spreadsheet, I had 41,21% absorb which became 60,49% with proc. If I'd had 35,00%, the proc would've made it 57,94%
Above are total figures with everything else thrown in as well, it's merely to show that a 6% gap without proc becomes a 4% gap with, thanks for the lower % gaining more from the buff.

I did my own spreadsheet experiments and found that my best idea for averaging it out was to calculate a second absorb % with the 395 rating from proc added.
Then you make an educated guess as to uptime. Max uptime is ofc 30% (6s/20s cd), but maybe 25-27% is more accurate as you need to shield a hit to activate it.
You then make 25-27% of the incoming hits that are shielded hit the buffed shield with absorb proc and the remaining 75-73% hit normal shield.

[LagunaD]

Unfortunately, it's not easy to add temporary buffs to the spreadsheet in a general way.

Some may overlap (e.g. the Guardian/Juggernaut reactive defense buff + a relic), and some may not (e.g. two relics).

[TehScat]

Because the buff does not have 100% uptime, we can't really consider it in the spreadsheet because we're looking at a worst case scenario - how much damage you take when you only have your 100% uptime buffs, no cooldowns or procs. If you want to see the effect it has, just plug in the proc's bonus to your base stats and note the change, that is the value of the proc, then divide that by its uptime for an average increase to your survivability. You're better off just saying that when the proc is up, you have x% more damage reduction though, rather than trying to make it a passive bonus.

[Amagnus]

(01-13-2012 12:30 PM)LagunaD Wrote:  

(01-12-2012 11:41 PM)kaisies Wrote:  For Jugg/Guard you have their +DefRat listed as 17% (specced in tank line)

I can see where 11 of this comes from, 5 from base, 6 from Guard Stance. However where is the other 6 coming from? Are you assuming Retaliation buff (Blade barricade) is always up, thus making 17%?

Yes. I was a bit concerned about that, but it seemed to be the number used by Guardian/Juggernauts when comparing.

Any more on this? The only number I can't confirm is this one. Are we sure base is 17% and not 11%?

[Neokarasu]

(02-21-2012 03:49 PM)Amagnus Wrote:  Any more on this? The only number I can't confirm is this one. Are we sure base is 17% and not 11%?

I don't have any idea about SW mechanics but is Blade Barricade always up or is it a long CD? Sins have a short CD that increases Shield by 15-20% and for the sake of the spreadsheet, it is treated as a 100% uptime.

If Blade Barricade is effectively always up, it should be calculated as so. Otherwise, it is easy enough to manually change the base value as necessary.

(02-20-2012 03:07 PM)TehScat Wrote:  Because the buff does not have 100% uptime, we can't really consider it in the spreadsheet because we're looking at a worst case scenario - how much damage you take when you only have your 100% uptime buffs, no cooldowns or procs. If you want to see the effect it has, just plug in the proc's bonus to your base stats and note the change, that is the value of the proc, then divide that by its uptime for an average increase to your survivability. You're better off just saying that when the proc is up, you have x% more damage reduction though, rather than trying to make it a passive bonus.

I agree with this approach. So you'll essentially have two different "squishiness" and just take a weighted average to determine the overall squishiness.