Two Qs on Secondary Stats for PvP Sorcerers

[Oracle]

(01-09-2012 06:40 AM)Kor Wrote:  In addition, every bit of scaling testing I've done has shown that Power nearly always beats out the other 3 stats, particularly if you have at least 100 or so rating in each.

How large is that margin? (Forgive me if I'm missing a thread where the numbers are posted, I have looked). You mentioned earlier that obviously some stats are better if they have good synergy with skills and talents, which crit does in particular with a few talents in 5/33/3 assassin builds. (Specifically 30% crit damage on maul, 50% crit damage on Discharge and Shock, and force crits increasing melee crit chance by 9%). In your opinion does the obvious synergy between building crit chance as an assassin outweigh the raw damage that Power increases damage by?

I had previously assumed that crit>power for assassins running 5/33/3, but I'm curious now given what you said.

[Kaedis]

Quote:so regardless of which dps build u go as sorc ur saying power will be a better stat for any build?

Not necessarily, but it will for most builds with most gearsets. This really only applies if you have at least ~100 rating of each type on your gear. Less than that, and the DR curves on certain stats, particularly surge and crit, push it above power briefly.

Quote:How large is that margin? (Forgive me if I'm missing a thread where the numbers are posted, I have looked). You mentioned earlier that obviously some stats are better if they have good synergy with skills and talents, which crit does in particular with a few talents in 5/33/3 assassin builds. (Specifically 30% crit damage on maul, 50% crit damage on Discharge and Shock, and force crits increasing melee crit chance by 9%). In your opinion does the obvious synergy between building crit chance as an assassin outweigh the raw damage that Power increases damage by?

I had previously assumed that crit>power for assassins running 5/33/3, but I'm curious now given what you said.

The margins isn't large, but it's there. However, note that all of my testing has been in regards to sorcerers. I've done no scaling testing for assassins as of yet. Crackling Blasts and Induction should inflate the value of crit rating, however, and Exploitive Strikes plus the crit-stacking the results from the inflated value will inflate the value of surge rating substantially as well. Whether that's enough to overtake power is another question entirely.

However, note that for every single class and spec in the game, Power will eventually become their dominant stat (possibly just behind their primary stat). This is due to the fact that it is the only stat that doesn't have a DR curve associated with it. However, note that stat weights for your gear are based on your current gear. If a sim (which will hopefully be finished soon) shows power to be better for your dps than the other stats, that doesn't mean to go reslot all your mods for power. That will get rid of a large amount of the secondary stats you have, increasing their value.

Unfortunately, with the current DR system in this game, perfectly min-maxing your gear becomes a rather nasty differential equation, as the benefit value of most stats is based on their current level, and for most of them, other stats also affect that value. For example, stacking crit rating decreases the value of further crit rating, both due to the DR curve and the diminishing returns effect built into crit (for example, adding 10% crit when you have 0% (and 0% surge) gives you a 5.0% dps increase. Adding 10% when you have 90% crit gives you only a 0.3.45% dps increase), but significantly amplifies the value of surge rating (10% surge when you have 10% crit chance only increases your dps by 0.952%. 10% when you have 50% crit chance increases your dps by 4.0%). It's a hideously complex equation. I doubt I'll ever actually capture it in a raw equation, but if I can get my sim finished, you can at least test for stat weights yourself.

[Uninformed]

This is why I find at least the Tier 1 Centurion gear for Sorcerer DPS (Force Master) a bit perplexing as Alacrity dominates the set, rather than crit. I guess I'll stack power and crit as I can as a hybrid.

[Kaedis]

Quote:This is why I find at least the Tier 1 Centurion gear for Sorcerer DPS (Force Master) a bit perplexing as Alacrity dominates the set, rather than crit. I guess I'll stack power and crit as I can as a hybrid.

I swear Bioware just randomized the stats or something. The T3 Rakata set for Sorc dps is dominated by Crit and Alacrity, when Power is our best stat (and there's only like 100 power on the set). Should be lots of power, moderate amounts of crit and surge, and little to no Alacrity.

[Uninformed]

I guess we could swap out some of the stuff for power enhancements but that probably will kill the high endurance ratings of the gear itself.

[Kaedis]

Quote:I guess we could swap out some of the stuff for power enhancements but that probably will kill the high endurance ratings of the gear itself.

Only works on PvE gear, where endurance doesn't matter (except for tanks). PvP gear is unmoddable.

[Uninformed]

interesting. I was disappointed that i didn't have slots on my saber et al. Would have been nice to customize.

[frmorrison]

(01-10-2012 03:41 AM)Kor Wrote:  

Quote:This is why I find at least the Tier 1 Centurion gear for Sorcerer DPS (Force Master) a bit perplexing as Alacrity dominates the set, rather than crit. I guess I'll stack power and crit as I can as a hybrid.

I swear Bioware just randomized the stats or something. The T3 Rakata set for Sorc dps is dominated by Crit and Alacrity, when Power is our best stat (and there's only like 100 power on the set). Should be lots of power, moderate amounts of crit and surge, and little to no Alacrity.

Before Gems came out in WoW, the item sets usually had "bad" stats on the items, instead of the better stats. Later on the devs figured the correct stats out.
SWTOR devs may have a similar issue, they just don't know what is best.
At least for PvE gear, it has been mentioned that the non-armoring/hilt mods could be pulled out of the gear. That way should help "fix" the gear and still keep the good set bonuses.

[Ramrok]

so then is there a chart showing crit and power and surge fallofs and alacrity? i really wanna get a more accurate look at these number because 100 crit rating looks far too little to be accurate imo.

[Kaedis]

Quote:so then is there a chart showing crit and power and surge fallofs and alacrity? i really wanna get a more accurate look at these number because 100 crit rating looks far too little to be accurate imo.

If you mean a graph of the DR curves, I made a graph a while back (in this post). If you mean stat benefits, we're no where near having the tools for that yet.

Side note: that graph misrepresents Expertise scaling, it's changed since then.