[Archive] Sith Sorcerer/Jedi Sage Lightning/Telekinetics Compendium

[Alratan]

Unless I've missed something, you can definitely have both of them up on the same target at once.

[Anubis Black]

(08-30-2011 03:03 AM)Udp Wrote:  Any confirmation on whether affliction and crushing darkness stack and if we can have them on multiple mobs or not?

Thanks gents.

Yes. We can have both DoTs up on as many mobs as possible at once. Confirmed through testers and videos.

[Undead Prince]

(08-27-2011 09:32 PM)Piree Wrote:  Talents

http://www.war-tools.com/t73177.html?b=9...021203e100
Or
http://www.war-tools.com/t73177.html?b=9...21203d3100
http://www.war-tools.com/t73177.html?b=9...212030013d

Depends on how often affliction will crit and if Force Lightning belongs under "Periodic" abilities.
The 2 last builds depends if Polarity Shift also decreases GCD. Conduction might improve your DPS more as it has a continuous 3% damage increase, (if it's easy to keep it up)

About parasitism: I don't know if our Force Lightning will count as a "Periodic", we might also drop that and take Chain Shock.

Rotation

NOTE: This rotation is for DPS on 1 target, if you are fighting multiple, you need to change a lot.

Dots + Debuffs

Affliction - Instant - 21 seconds
Crushing Darkness - 2 secs - 18 seconds

Buffs

Recklessness - instant - 60% critical strike, 2 charges. - 1min 30sec
Polarity Shift - Instant - 20% - 20% Haste on ACTIVATING abilities for 10secs, force lightning does not belong to this :'(

Damage

Lightning Strike - 1.5 secs - x3 --> to keep the regeneration buff from subversion
Chain lightning - 3 secs cast - Should be cast after procs from "Lightning Storm" and "Wrath"
Force Lightning - 3secs channeled - Should always be spammed, unless: 1. Keep "Subversion" up 2. "Lightning Storm" or "Wrath" procs 3. You need to DoT your target.

Force Lightning will be our major damage dealing ability. CL instant casts will hopefully give us a great boost too.

Important Talent Procs:

-Lightning
Subversion: Lightning Strike has a 100% chance to increase your force regeneration rate by 10% for 10seconds. Stacks up to 3 times.
Lightning Storm: Your Lightning Strike has a 30% chance and your FOrce Storm has a 9% chance when dealing damage to cause a Lightning Storm, immediately finishing the cooldown on Chain Lightning and reducing the activation time of your next Chain Lightning by 100%. This effect cannot occur more than once every 10 seconds.
Lightning Barrage: Affliction critical hits have a 100% chance to grant lightning barrage, causing your next Force Lightning to channel and tick twice as fast. This effect cannot occur mre than once every 10 seconds.

-Madness

Wrath: When your Force Lightning deals damage, you have a 30% chance to have your next damaging force attack with an activation time to activate instantly and cause 20% more damage.

Start of rotation:



As you can see, we gotta think of multiple procs that will influence our rotation. Thats why sometimes you will only cast Force Lightning and LS, when you get no procs to cast CL.
Other times, you might be spamming CL. I don't know how long "Wrath" and "Lightning Storm" will stay, but I assume its 10 seconds like Lightning Barrage.
About Lightning Barrage, I didn't really did anything special in my rotation with it because most of the time you will be channeling it every 10 seconds.

NOTES:

I don't know if Polarity Shift also decreses the GCD, that's why i kept Lightning Storm at 1.5sec
Thinking about it, that would make Polarity Shift pretty useless for us, as it doesn't work (Check talent builds at top)
Wrath currently has no 10 seconds lockout of the proc, I will now assume it won't, but pretty sure it will change soon

If there is any stat that increases your regen our force pool, we don't really need because:

Subversion : 30% faster regen
Lightning Effusion: Crits cause our next two force abilities to require 50% of their normal force cost.
Sith Efficacy: Everytime FL deals damage we recover 1% of our total force
Parasitism: Causes critical hits from periodic damage abilities to restore 1% health and force.

As you can see, we should have a pretty good regeneration, like I said at talents, we might drop Parasitism if it isn't useful enough.

-- If you are a beta tester and want to help out, Take your time to answer these questions (Will update them if someone asks something).
- Force Lightning = Periodic? Test it with parasitism or other procs
- Does Polarity Shift reduce Channeling time?
- Does Polarity Shift reduce Global Cooldown?
- Does alacrity reduce Global Cooldown?
- Does "Wrath" have a hidden CD? Like the 10 secs on Lightning Storm.
- Can you cast Channeling spells while moving? Saw a clip, can't remember which, and I thought I saw some dude running while channeling.
- How useful is Death Field on 1-2 targets?
- How is your current regeneration, and what talents u got for regen.

I also think we will have better DPS then regular Sith Sorcerers, this is just pure speculation as I havn't played it myself.

Fail. I've already suggested a nearly identical build a long time ago (Force Lightning spam, Madness, Wrath, CL procs etc), and we had extensive mathematical comparison with AnubisBlack of the damage output as compered to a "pure" Lighting 31 Sorc. In the end, the Lightning Sorc won very barely.

But it's hard to discuss further due to lack of concrete info on how much damage the abilities (esp. high level ones like TB) will actually do, and how other aspects will apply.

And I notice actual damage calculations are totally lacking in your post. Also, you're overusing LS, with Madness FL will do more damage and will proc more for Wrath-CL. And ignoring Lightning Barrage FLs in your rotation...

In short, just read the discussion up till now, before proclaiming yourself "winner" of anything...

Edited by Anubis Black: Don't start flame wars, we want intelligent discussions here.

[Undead Prince]

(08-18-2011 03:50 AM)Piree Wrote:  On the top bar the 3rd ability from the left (sorta orange) dealt 2033-2120 damge
And the channeled spell was 634+- each tick
And the Area of effect spell dealt 390-415 each time.

Can't remember the names of the spells, if anyone got a list

So, even an unoptimized FL does 1902+ damage per casting, vs TB's 2033-2120. Interesting

(08-17-2011 01:48 AM)Anubis Black Wrote:  Polarity Shift only lasts 10 seconds, what a bummer.

And that comes as no surprise. Making it entirely useless unless it also affects global cooldown (and even then, only barely).

[Udp]

(08-30-2011 03:25 AM)Anubis Black Wrote:  

(08-30-2011 03:03 AM)Udp Wrote:  Any confirmation on whether affliction and crushing darkness stack and if we can have them on multiple mobs or not?

Thanks gents.

Yes. We can have both DoTs up on as many mobs as possible at once. Confirmed through testers and videos.

I figured as much but you never know anyways thanks. This makes our rotation essentially set in stone then?

Aff -> CD ->PS + Reck ->TB-> LS

with FL being used on LB proc and reusing both Reck and PS on their respective CD's .

The initial PS and Reck are of course assuming they do not effect GCD.

[Anubis Black]

(08-30-2011 04:44 AM)Undead Prince Wrote:  So, even an unoptimized FL does 1902+ damage per casting, vs TB's 2033-2120. Interesting

I have to watch that video, I never got around to do so. I'll give my input afterwards.

(08-30-2011 04:44 AM)Undead Prince Wrote:  

(08-17-2011 01:48 AM)Anubis Black Wrote:  Polarity Shift only lasts 10 seconds, what a bummer.

And that comes as no surprise. Making it entirely useless unless it also affects global cooldown (and even then, only barely).

Yes, we had the same thoughts (me and Alratan). We reached the conclusion it NEEDS to affect the gcd. Otherwise it would be ridiculous.

(08-30-2011 05:21 AM)Udp Wrote:  I figured as much but you never know anyways thanks. This makes our rotation essentially set in stone then?

Aff -> CD ->PS + Reck ->TB-> LS

with FL being used on LB proc and reusing both Reck and PS on their respective CD's .

The initial PS and Reck are of course assuming they do not effect GCD.

You can read the rotation in the OP, it is more of a priority list. Not necessarily set in stone, as you can see from the questions in red. Numbers will tell us the actual priority list eventually.

As for PS, I'd rather cast it straight after Affl, since then it will affect both CD and TB. Possibly use R after TB to not waste a crit charge. This difference of 3- 4 seconds between PS and R will amount to more later on, but it shouldn't be an issue.

[Alratan]

(08-30-2011 05:56 AM)Anubis Black Wrote:  Yes, we had the same thoughts (me and Alratan). We reached the conclusion it NEEDS to affect the gcd. Otherwise it would be ridiculous.

It also needs to not incur the GCD, as well, as that'd be similarly disastrous.

[Anubis Black]

(08-30-2011 06:03 AM)Alratan Wrote:  

(08-30-2011 05:56 AM)Anubis Black Wrote:  Yes, we had the same thoughts (me and Alratan). We reached the conclusion it NEEDS to affect the gcd. Otherwise it would be ridiculous.

It also needs to not incur the GCD, as well, as that'd be similarly disastrous.

True. For ease of creating a macro with PS and other abilities. The same goes for Recklessness.

On a different note, CD has been changed. It now lasts only 6 seconds (base) or 9 seconds (talented) with a cd of 15 seconds. This change boggles my mind. Was CD really that OP to be nerfed like that? It does not make sense to me.

[Udp]

(08-30-2011 06:07 AM)Anubis Black Wrote:  

(08-30-2011 06:03 AM)Alratan Wrote:  

(08-30-2011 05:56 AM)Anubis Black Wrote:  Yes, we had the same thoughts (me and Alratan). We reached the conclusion it NEEDS to affect the gcd. Otherwise it would be ridiculous.

It also needs to not incur the GCD, as well, as that'd be similarly disastrous.

True. For ease of creating a macro with PS and other abilities. The same goes for Recklessness.

On a different note, CD has been changed. It now lasts only 6 seconds (base) or 9 seconds (talented) with a cd of 15 seconds. This change boggles my mind. Was CD really that OP to be nerfed like that? It does not make sense to me.

9 seconds is just stupidly short imo it is ridiculous to me even 15 seconds is too short assume it ticks every 3 secs.? which is the MMO norm nowadays.

[Undead Prince]

All right, gents, have you read the new 50 level Sorcerer writeup at Betacake? Came in 23rd Aug, but I haven't seen it examined here yet. My fav part:

Quote:"Madness - it is my favorite spec, and is really well designed for both sorcerers and assassins. Overall, you are a dot based spec that does the most sustained dps I have found yet in the game (without a damage meter, its mostly from my pulling aggro all the time and comparing it to solo players of other classes killing mobs) but also have some good burst. The mana (force ) returns can be insane - I can run a rotation with death field aoe, shock on cd, dots on 2 targets and use every instant cast proc and still last a very long time. This scales insanely well with crit as well, because your crits dots return health and mana (force ) and do more damage from talents. You only should ever really cast one spell - force lightning - because everything else you need is made instant or already is instant.

Overall, I think madness is higher dps than lightning."

Doesn't that just look a wee bit like my Force Lightning-spam Madness-build? Right down to Parasitism and Deathmarked Death Field

But the guy didn't really go all the way in optimizing it, though. He didn't use the Wrath-Chain Lightning shortcut and didn't take Lightning Effusion (probably because he took Madness 31). Yet even with his build running at half-power, he still felt it was superior in DPS to Lightning 31! And he concluded:

Quote:Overall, Madness does overpowered damage and has too much control. Its longevity with lots of crit chance is insane, and the only downside is that in pvp you have no survivability talents outside reduced cd stun / knockback and the instant whirlwind, and after those you can get steamrolled. However, you dont need that much time to get dots up and a single rotation of creeping terror / affliction / 1 force lightning / death field / shock / crushing darkness will do 6- 7k damage, and you only cast one spell in that. You are almost uninterpretable and have huge mobility.

He actually ended up suggesting to nerf Madness down! Which is what we Hybrid fans will now have to fear, I guess

---

Now, In reaction to the above re-post of me being snarky towards Piree, it wasn't just the fact that he didn't bother to read anything on the forum before claiming to have discovered a "perfect build" of sorts, but that he actually declared himself a "winner" over everybody else in his second post, which didn't make it here and I assume got deleted with his entire thread... So, that's why I was sort of curt with him... if that's over the line in what's allowed here, I apologise...

BUT it does show that others are thinking along the same lines of optimising Force Lightning via the Madness branch... And so far, it seems a reasonable option to consider...