[ARCHIVE] 1.1.5 Madness/Balance Sorcerer DPS Compendium

[Spren]

Has anyone checked to see if we have new set bonuses with this new tier of gear? I used to think the Sorcerer ones were bad, then I took my new Marauder into our raid last night and saw those bonuses.

[Khadroth]

(03-18-2012 10:57 AM)Kor Wrote:  Lightning Strike will continue to be a DPS loss to use on Wrath. Even with the reduction to FL damage, Wrath LS is still 12.5% lower DPCT than FL in BIS gear. Even at zero Alacrity, it's still 5.5% behind FL.

My only question would be, have they changed the dmg coefficients on anything? As that could really change the outlook and rotations of some of the specs.

[frmorrison]

Not as of the current PTS. I am not sure Lightning Strike needs to be buffed, 31 Lightning is similar dps to Hybrid and Madness in 1.2.

Note LS becomes useful for Hybrid spec in PvP in 1.2, since sometimes you will have Wrath up and be on the move, so LS can be used then.

[Kaedis]

Quote:My only question would be, have they changed the dmg coefficients on anything? As that could really change the outlook and rotations of some of the specs.

I've checked the coefficients and base damage values for all of the major spells they might have changed (all 4 heals, static barrier, LS, FL, TB, CL, CD, Aff, CT, DF), and none of them have changed.

[anx]

Is there a listing somewhere of the stats that have changed on current gear vs the PTS? It appears that some of the mods/enhancements have changes on both the Rakata gear as well as the Battlemaster gear. I'm unsure if stats have changed much on the lower tiers though.

[frmorrison]

BM gear lost primary stats (WP/End) but gained a lot of expertise (something like 700 exp to 1100 exp with a full set). It is in all the mods. It appears the mods in the War Hero gear (new PvP gear) have changed to be a little better: http://mmo-mechanics.com/news.php?articl...or-preview

[sipylus]

Quick question re CL in the hybrid spec. Since the dps gain from that one point in 0/12/18+1 is going to be fairly minimal, would it still be best to take CL for AoE pulls?

edit - fights -> pulls ... I'm really asking about trash here I guess.

[Acaadi]

(03-20-2012 08:13 AM)sipylus Wrote:  Quick question re CL in the hybrid spec. Since the dps gain from that one point in 0/12/18+1 is going to be fairly minimal, would it still be best to take CL for AoE pulls?

edit - fights -> pulls ... I'm really asking about trash here I guess.

I would say it is up to you how you would like to play. From a raiding standpoint, I will agree with Kor and say its a wasted point. But if you enjoy its slight utility, then take it.

As an aside, would it be a DPS gain to put the points into the double shock proc talent and work it in to where CL used to be due to its buff from calcify?

[Kaedis]

Quote:As an aside, would it be a DPS gain to put the points into the double shock proc talent and work it in to where CL used to be due to its buff from calcify?

My gut reaction was to say "no", but interestingly enough, with the changes to Calcify and Disintegration, Shock (with 3/3 Chain Shock) is actually almost dead even with Force Lightning for DPCT. It's not worth casting over FL, due to the ridiculously lower efficiency and the nonexistent DPCT advantage, but it's not really a loss to cast while moving now, since Hybrid is no longer really force-constrained.

[Sith_Happens]

(03-18-2012 10:57 AM)Kor Wrote:  

Quote:Eh I'd say we will just replace chain lightning with lightning strike on wrath procs with crushing darkness on cooldown. Aside from that it stays more or less the same.

The real loss in damage comes from the loss of chain lightning arcing to other targets. However the over all loss in raid situations is minimal from the wrath change but the calcify and to a lesser extent Disintegration changes are where most of the dps loss is coming from. Though the Disintegration may end up a minimal change depending on the new DR changes.

Lightning Strike will continue to be a DPS loss to use on Wrath. Even with the reduction to FL damage, Wrath LS is still 12.5% lower DPCT than FL in BIS gear. Even at zero Alacrity, it's still 5.5% behind FL.

Do you think the devs realize this? They obviously expect us to use Wrath Lightning Strike for something, considering it will still be possible. Otherwise, the skill might as well just say "Crushing Darkness activates instantly and deals 20% more damage." Functional, but boring.
______________________________________________________

What I'm trying to figure with the Wrath change is, why? Obviously there are several potentially good reasons, I'm just trying to pinpoint which one(s) was(/were) most likely the cause(s) of action (look, more parentheses!(())).

1. They may just be trying to make hybrid builds less appealing, in which case they definitely succeeded. Of course, as many have pointed out, this same effect could probably have been better achieved by tweaking Thundering Blast and Creeping Terror to be more attractive in comparison, rather than killing Wrath Chain Lightning altogether.

2. Single-target PvE damage seems an unlikely motivation. 0/13/28 is apparently unscathed by the change, while any Lightning Effusion-based builds are effectively dead, but those were lower damage in the first place. In all cases, though, Lightning Barrage is (as far as I've read here) the major contributor for single-target anyways.

3. AoE damage concerns (both PvE and PvP) seem to me like the most likely thing they wanted to squash, since the combination of Wrath Chain Lightning and Death Field could very well have been outperforming either pure build by a good margin. I've not found anything very concrete on this; does anyone here have actual numbers on how the current 0/13/28 and 7/18/16 compare to full Lightning and Madness against 3+ targets as opposed to one (with and without double-dip)?

4. PvP almost definitely played a big part. The only thing is, people seem to complain more about Electric Bindings and Backlash (which can still easily be hybrid-ed into) than anything else, and as far as I can tell Sorcerers lost their FoTM status altogether about three weeks ago in favor of Marauders and Assassins anyways. Now, losing Wrath Chain Lightning could mean a decent single-target damage drop for most PvP builds, which seem to be Effusion-based currently. Since I don't have experience with them, could anyone estimate how much of a typical PvP build's single-target damage comes from Chain Lightning (obviously the AoE contribution is quite large and definitely a factor as well)?

As you can probably tell, I've been having a lot of fun with Wrath Chain Lightning and would feel a lot better about losing it if I had a better idea as to why it has to go in the first place.