Scoundrel/Operative Healing Compendium

[denDAY04]

(02-17-2012 02:01 PM)Ulvsblak Wrote:  OK -

so after the surge nerf, has anyone crunched the numbers again?

Does it still make sense to rip out the Rakata enhancement and replace them with columi enhancement?

Yes. Surge might be less useful but Alacrity is still directly harmful towards healing potential so you would want to lose everything that has Alacrity on it.

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On another note I would also like to see the charts updated with the new softcaps on surge, even though they should have little impact on Op healing.

[denDAY04]

Might I also suggest something added to the "How to heal" list?

I'm thinking a new 3b or putting it under the notes.
The thing being: If damage to tank < vital --> KP all party members.

Explanation:
Purely verbal it says: If the tank doesn't take more damage than 2x KP and perhaps one SP can handle, then stack KP on the other party members.
This prevents you from standing idle and doing nothing because there's no serious damage, and instead provides backup heal for group damage and a much higher chance of procing TA.
I have tried this in HM FPs and it worked out really well. As long as you start this sequence at 100% energy, you will not go underneath 70% as long as you don't spam the KP and will leave you plenty of energy for emergency healing even if you should spam away your TA due to max e/s.

I know that OP states that having just one KP is never worth it, but keep in mind that the primary purpose of this sequence is not healing, but procing TA and not just standing idle by when there's nothing too urgent to heal.

What I do is usually:
- 2x KP are already on tank and I have one or two TA.
- Tank takes a hit and it can be healed up sufficient by SP.
- Wait a second or two to make sure that he doesn't take another big hit.
- Puts one KP on part member 2.
- Puts one KP on party member 3.
- Checks if tank needs a new KP
- Puts the second KP on party member 2.
And so forth.

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Just thought it was worth mentioning, even though I don't know if this has been said at some earlier point in this discussion :/

[Anonymousy]

i still have to disagree with wasting energy on overheal. if you have your hot on the tank, then you should have a TA ready. if not you can just drop the cheap heal for one.
the reason why i cannot agree with this energy waste is the point you said yourself:

Quote:you will not go underneath 70%

that is all nice and dandy but it means that when the big hit actually arrives you might just sit there on 70% instead of 100%. your emergency potential is reduced by more than a third and the current standard-build gives you whooping 90hp more on a 3k heal. i'm sure that will save the day compared to me who would start at 100% and the potential to pop min 2 stim boosts for an additional 20e.
if you don't want to waste your energy and know you wont need it, you can also throw a dot or grenade or so on the boss. but that's not really your job.

[denDAY04]

If a big hit should land on the tank you almost certainly have 2 TA which will make you able to use two SPs. At that time when you're done casting Injection you will be at 100 again (pretty much) so I don't see the loss.
But granted, this method does require you to be more focused of the fight to predict big blows, but all I can say is that it worked fine for me when I used it.

[Kuramasu]

(02-22-2012 08:02 PM)denDAY04 Wrote:  Might I also suggest something added to the "How to heal" list?

I'm thinking a new 3b or putting it under the notes.
The thing being: If damage to tank < vital --> KP all party members.

Explanation:
Purely verbal it says: If the tank doesn't take more damage than 2x KP and perhaps one SP can handle, then stack KP on the other party members.
This prevents you from standing idle and doing nothing because there's no serious damage, and instead provides backup heal for group damage and a much higher chance of procing TA.
I have tried this in HM FPs and it worked out really well. As long as you start this sequence at 100% energy, you will not go underneath 70% as long as you don't spam the KP and will leave you plenty of energy for emergency healing even if you should spam away your TA due to max e/s.

I know that OP states that having just one KP is never worth it, but keep in mind that the primary purpose of this sequence is not healing, but procing TA and not just standing idle by when there's nothing too urgent to heal.

What I do is usually:
- 2x KP are already on tank and I have one or two TA.
- Tank takes a hit and it can be healed up sufficient by SP.
- Wait a second or two to make sure that he doesn't take another big hit.
- Puts one KP on part member 2.
- Puts one KP on party member 3.
- Checks if tank needs a new KP
- Puts the second KP on party member 2.
And so forth.

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Just thought it was worth mentioning, even though I don't know if this has been said at some earlier point in this discussion :/

This works great in HM FP's because you have a lot more down time and periods of low damage than in HM/NM ops. In HM FP's you can maintain 2 stacks of KP on all members of the group, which will (in my gear) mitigate the vast majority of damage dealt to the group. You can keep refresh your hots and focus your SPs on the tank. The problem with this in ops is that:
1. can't have hots on the entire raid (not even close in 16man)
2. the tanks consistently takes more damage so that SPs alone won't be near enough to keep him up
3. There isn't real downtime in boss fights so your choosing to spend your energy on excessive hots instead of casting KI or RN on the raid.

The only ops fight I have found that it is worth it to focus on hots in is NM Karagga. In this fight there is enough damage dealt to the raid that your hots usually don't overheal and become an efficient means of keeping the raid up. All the other fights deal mostly single target damage with some phases where the raid takes damage. These don't warrant hot spamming since there will be much over heal and limit your ability to tank heal. (which is what were best at right now anyway)

[Agenteusa]

(02-28-2012 09:08 PM)Smokeskin Wrote:  If you can hit multiple targets with it, RN is great.

Well compared with the Sorc/Consular aoe it isn´t. They´re both endtier abilities but one is much better than the other.

RN would be good (this is just my opinion) if the ticks would hit faster. It´s too slow the way it is and the healing isn´t really that great.

I do agree on the KP though. Would also help if you could track on the frames the dot expiration cause it really is hard switching targets and having to look at small icons to know whether you need to reapply or not.

[Smokeskin]

(02-28-2012 09:15 PM)Agenteusa Wrote:  

(02-28-2012 09:08 PM)Smokeskin Wrote:  If you can hit multiple targets with it, RN is great.

Well compared with the Sorc/Consular aoe it isn´t. They´re both endtier abilities but one is much better than the other.

RN would be good (this is just my opinion) if the ticks would hit faster. It´s too slow the way it is and the healing isn´t really that great.

Well, compared to sorcs, it is what it is. Not much we can do about that except pray to the dev gods.

Compared to the other healing abilities that we do have, RN is simply the best HPE for sustained we have if you can hit 2+ targets (aside from refreshing a KP stack).

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(02-28-2012 10:18 PM)Agenteusa Wrote:  Honestly it seems BW wanted us to use alacrity (judging from the amount of it present in rakata gear) but it feels it would benefit sorcs much more since they are the ones who dont need to manage energy and can spam heal for quite some time. It´s not that alacrity is bad but the other stats are much better.

For burst healing leading up to either an Adrenaline Probe (or calm period where you can regen energy), Alacrity is amazing.

For long term sustained healing, Alacrity beats Surge at about surge rating 350. At 300 surge, alacrity is only 25% behind surge per point for sustained healing.

I've said it in a few other places - the idea that Surge always beats Alacrity is based on pre-surge nerf numbers and a spreadsheet with faulty assumptions. Surge is quite good until 250, and from 250 to 300 you should be weighing your burst vs. sustained healing needs and begin stacking alacrity according to that. Above 300 surge, that's just a waste.

[Kaladris]

Moderation note

After letting the discussion go on for a while ( and sleeping, as i live in europe, would have reacted faster if i were awake), i decided to end this pretty unproductive discussion about how, if and when RN is going to be changed in 1.2.
We will see the change eventually and will then be able to have an adaequate discussion about the changes, if there will be any.

To conserve the discussion at least for some time, i decided to split it into a new post that will now be locked.
I decided to not warn anyone or delete any post as this discussion obviously just surged (haha) into our thread and got everyone's attention instantly, which makes me assume that nobody here was trolling or feeding the troll intentionally.
Please note that this is not the regular procedure, and that i *will* delete future posts that contain nothing more than speculation and i *will* warn the posters, as speculation is just consuming mental resources that are probably even better invested in porn, just to get you the idea.
I will delete move the speculation thread after some time over in the archive, and hope that this whole thing now ends.
I know it it pretty appetizing to have something to speculate about after a long period of time with just cold number chrunching, but that doesn't change the fact that this forum is not the right place to do it.

I hope i was able to make my point clear, that we are now all able to get back to the expected niveau of this thread that i am used to, and that there will be no more further posts in direction of the moved ones.

So long,
Kala

[Smokeskin]

I believe the OP should be edited regarding stat weights. It is based on pre-surge nerf numbers, and is now quite inaccurate.

My analysis: http://sithwarrior.com/forums/Thread-Ope...preadsheet

[Vaylie]

How often do we use diagnostic scan during the course of a raid? Would you say the 4 points in Patient Studies and Prognosis: Critical are crucial to raiding?

I've been thinking of a PvE-viable spec that's also useful in PvP, so something which looks like this. But I do need the 4 points somewhere to spec into Slip Away, and I was thinking of taking them from the diagnostic scan talents.