Powertech/Vanguard DPS Compendium

[frmorrison]

(03-29-2012 07:37 PM)sleepingzzz Wrote:  Without the set I have a 30% chance to crit. Using all my cool downs gives me a 55% chance to crit. Nothing is worst then using all the cool downs and not getting a crit with HIB/RS. Another thing is even with the 8% extra damage I have never gotten a 6k hit on a regular boss fight. I can also definitely tell I crit a lot less.

I should have used the spreadsheet, while more crits are fun, they aren't always the best way to do damage.

Modeling PvP gear instead of PvE (so lose 80 aim and set bonus to get 15% crit) loses 1.5% of dps in live and 2.5% dps in patch 1.2. While RS hits harder with PvP set bonus, all your other attacks will be weaker do to less Aim. However, PvP is close in power to PvE.
Note the PvP set bonus is not better because Explosive Fuel tech crit bonus is very useful.

[thrakkemarn]

Yes, stacking for "big numbers" is a mistake I see a lot of people make. It's better to have overall higher DPS than an occasional big number for PVE. For PVP those RS crits are pure murder though. Overall I think the set bonuses for PTs are well balanced for PvE and PvP.

[sleepingzzz]

(03-30-2012 02:01 AM)frmorrison Wrote:  

(03-29-2012 07:37 PM)sleepingzzz Wrote:  Without the set I have a 30% chance to crit. Using all my cool downs gives me a 55% chance to crit. Nothing is worst then using all the cool downs and not getting a crit with HIB/RS. Another thing is even with the 8% extra damage I have never gotten a 6k hit on a regular boss fight. I can also definitely tell I crit a lot less.

I should have used the spreadsheet, while more crits are fun, they aren't always the best way to do damage.

Modeling PvP gear instead of PvE (so lose 80 aim and set bonus to get 15% crit) loses 1.5% of dps in live and 2.5% dps in patch 1.2. While RS hits harder with PvP set bonus, all your other attacks will be weaker do to less Aim. However, PvP is close in power to PvE.
Note the PvP set bonus is not better because Explosive Fuel tech crit bonus is very useful.

I think you're a bit confused here since the 15% chance to crit is from pvp gear. The harder hit comes from the PVE bonus. I get more crits by sacrificing just a bit of damage.

The amount of crit I'm losing on my other abilities is just from losing the bit of aim. Maybe what a tenth of a percent to crit?

I'll have to test this with 1.2. Another thing is I have changed just about most of my mods with power and surge since I don't need to stack crit. This gives me a very hard hitting ion pulse.

So I would say it's better to get ion pulse to hit as hard as possible instead of getting it to crit more. You want RS/HIB to crit. That's another 2K+ damage where as Ion pulse gives a few hundred. You'll need like 5 ion pulse crits to match one crit from HIB/RS.

[frmorrison]

(03-30-2012 11:48 AM)sleepingzzz Wrote:  I think you're a bit confused here since the 15% chance to crit is from pvp gear.

You seem confused. Using PvP gear is a dps loss over PvE gear (assuming equal item levels), shown by a spreadsheet and just thinking it though. Rail Shot is around 20% of your damage, so making that crit more makes that portion better, however the other 80% of damage would become lower (due to less Aim), making the total damage done less.

In the end the difference is small, but there is only one best way to do it.

[sleepingzzz]

(03-30-2012 12:33 PM)frmorrison Wrote:  

(03-30-2012 11:48 AM)sleepingzzz Wrote:  I think you're a bit confused here since the 15% chance to crit is from pvp gear.

You seem confused. Using PvP gear is a dps loss over PvE gear (assuming equal item levels), shown by a spreadsheet and just thinking it though. Rail Shot is around 20% of your damage, so making that crit more makes that portion better, however the other 80% of damage would become lower (due to less Aim), making the total damage done less.

In the end the difference is small, but there is only one best way to do it.

Not sure how you are coming up with it only being 20% of your damage. If I Do a spread sheet with HIB going off every 6 seconds for a little over 34.5 seconds it comes out to be over 40% with the pvp gear.

I would like to clarify that I use a 8/8/25 build and only use 4 abilities. I skip assault plastic because the ability is more for pvp burst than an increase in dps since it doesn't refresh HIB. I also only ever use Incendiary Round if HIB is up, the target is not on fire and I'm too far to hit it with ion pulse. The ability just uses up too much ammo for the damage it does.

Let me know if I'm off some how. In that period I have 6 HIB, 11 IP, 4 stockstrikes and 4 hammer shots.

For normal attacks my abilties read as follow on the tool tip. As for the crit I use the highest crit I get without stims.
With PVE gear:
IP= 1212 crit=2100
Stockstrike=1650 (Lowered it because armor effects it alot and this is usually how much I hit the mobs on ilum for) crit=3000
HIB = 2088 crit= 4450
Hammershot = 955 crit= 1210?(This is hard to figure out since it fires multiple shots so with a 30% chance to crit I just made one of the shots crit)

With PVP gear:
IP= 1190 crit = 2080
Stockstrike=1600 (Lowered it because armor effects it alot and this is usually how much I hit the mobs on ilum for) crit = 2950
HIB = 1906 HIB= 4100
Hammershot = 938 crit= 1200


With these numbers I get the PVP gear being better. I used the 6 second delay for this that is going to be in 1.2. If I go by the current game the damage percentage of HIB/RS can be much higher.

This is also with self buffs. The damage difference for having 100 less aim will be even smaller when fully raid buffed because of diminishing returns.
I also didn't take into account using all my stims and adrenls since it's obvious the PVP gear will have the advantage during that duration. Even without putting those instances in the spreadsheet the pvp gear still comes out on top.

[frmorrison]

This would be your damage breakdown using only 4 attacks and PvP set bonus (which is set to the armor shell in BM and below in patch 1.2, so you wouldn't lose Aim):
Flame Burst 1786.17 34.76%
Rail Shot 2803.25 28.10%
Rocket Punch 2290.32 15.97%
IGC Dot 761.78 15.22%
Rapid Shots 744.58 5.95%
DPS 1499

With PvE set bonuses:
Flame Burst 1786.31 34.49%
Rail Shot 3028.32 30.02%
IGC Dot 761.59 15.06%
Rocket Punch 2099.13 14.52%
Rapid Shots 739.75 5.91%
DPS 1511

[blott]

Remember that in 1.2 the stat losses on PVP gear might effect this even more, as the armoring from BM/Champ gear is actually get changed again I gotta check on the PTS again but as far as I know it is and expertise is going up. Plus the amount of aim you will have from aug slotted orange gear that you could slot the PVP armorings into might make up the difference. I have always wondered how big a difference it would make having the bonus for it, the only thing I wonder is with the stat boost we are gunna get 8% more damage might not be so bad and we will be gaining a lot of crit as well so the crit might be even more unimportant.

[thrakkemarn]

Actually Blott that does raise a good point - is having 4 more Augment slots with +28 Aim each worth more or less than the set bonus in 1.2?

112 Aim vs 45 sec Explosive Fuel + 8% Rail Shot damage ... I would assume the Set Bonus would outweigh the extra Aim, but I don't have access to a spreadsheet to test it right now.

[frmorrison]

The set bonuses are worth 45s Explosive Fuel about 8 dps or 0.5% more dps and 8% added Rail Shot 30 dps or 2% more dps. 100 Aim is about the same as both set bonus, so 40 dps. I am not sure how many augmented Oranges that can be crafted. Helm, Chest, Legs have tons of recipes, but not sure about orange boots and gloves (that are crafted).

The new Black Hole gear has the set bonus tied to the armoring mod, so you can get both augments and set bonus over time (note the Black Hole set bonuses are the same old ones).

[sleepingzzz]

(03-31-2012 02:23 AM)frmorrison Wrote:  This would be your damage breakdown using only 4 attacks and PvP set bonus (which is set to the armor shell in BM and below in patch 1.2, so you wouldn't lose Aim):
Flame Burst 1786.17 34.76%
Rail Shot 2803.25 28.10%
Rocket Punch 2290.32 15.97%
IGC Dot 761.78 15.22%
Rapid Shots 744.58 5.95%
DPS 1499

With PvE set bonuses:
Flame Burst 1786.31 34.49%
Rail Shot 3028.32 30.02%
IGC Dot 761.59 15.06%
Rocket Punch 2099.13 14.52%
Rapid Shots 739.75 5.91%
DPS 1511

Are these your crit numbers or these the averages? How did you get RS to be less overall damage with PVP gear vs PVE gear?