Powertech/Vanguard DPS Compendium

[Cray]

Just a heads up, all the skills aren't showing in your OP.

[frmorrison]

(03-21-2012 11:06 AM)kray Wrote:  Sorry if I was unclear. Either we drop RP completely sub 30% or only use it if PPA is not on ICD. Those are the two options that need to be evaluated.

Either way, we definitely do not want to use RP on cooldown sub 30%

That makes more sense. Since tracking the ICD is very hard without some sort of timing addon, dropping RP sub-30% (in 1.2) seems like the better option.

[kray]

(03-21-2012 11:58 AM)Cray Wrote:  Just a heads up, all the skills aren't showing in your OP.

You stole my name. Kinda. And yeah, it's a bug with the SW.com db, it will be fixed soon.

(03-21-2012 01:25 PM)frmorrison Wrote:  

(03-21-2012 11:06 AM)kray Wrote:  Sorry if I was unclear. Either we drop RP completely sub 30% or only use it if PPA is not on ICD. Those are the two options that need to be evaluated.

Either way, we definitely do not want to use RP on cooldown sub 30%

That makes more sense. Since tracking the ICD is very hard without some sort of timing addon, dropping RP sub-30% (in 1.2) seems like the better option.

Ha, sorry. I don't always post while totally awake. Anyway, hardcoding in "No RP below 30% shows a slight DPS loss, simply because of slightly less Rail Shots over time. The high proc on RP is just too good, I guess. Sims could be wrong though!

[Cray]

(03-21-2012 02:04 PM)kray Wrote:  

(03-21-2012 11:58 AM)Cray Wrote:  Just a heads up, all the skills aren't showing in your OP.

You stole my name. Kinda. And yeah, it's a bug with the SW.com db, it will be fixed soon.

(03-21-2012 01:25 PM)frmorrison Wrote:  

(03-21-2012 11:06 AM)kray Wrote:  Sorry if I was unclear. Either we drop RP completely sub 30% or only use it if PPA is not on ICD. Those are the two options that need to be evaluated.

Either way, we definitely do not want to use RP on cooldown sub 30%

That makes more sense. Since tracking the ICD is very hard without some sort of timing addon, dropping RP sub-30% (in 1.2) seems like the better option.

Ha, sorry. I don't always post while totally awake. Anyway, hardcoding in "No RP below 30% shows a slight DPS loss, simply because of slightly less Rail Shots over time. The high proc on RP is just too good, I guess. Sims could be wrong though!

Lolz, Cray is my ingame name :x

[Zarovich]

I'm currently a 31 Pyro spec but with the new 1.2 changes on test, I'm wondering if its time for a change. The AP build may be close enough now to Pyro in damage that the increase of Mobility, Surviving, and Utility may warrant the loss of 6% DPS. Also on top of this it appears the heat management of AP will be much better then Pyro once 1.2 goes Live.

What is everyone elses perspective on this?

[frmorrison]

(03-28-2012 03:57 AM)Zarovich Wrote:  I'm currently a 31 Pyro spec but with the new 1.2 changes on test, I'm wondering if its time for a change. The AP build may be close enough now to Pyro in damage that the increase of Mobility, Surviving, and Utility may warrant the loss of 6% DPS. Also on top of this it appears the heat management of AP will be much better then Pyro once 1.2 goes Live.

What is everyone elses perspective on this?

I feel that Pyro will still be the top spec (but then AP is a close second) for PvE and PvP. While Heat Management is easier in AP, Pyro's management isn't tough. The new Rail shots buff is predictable, so you don't have to spam FB to try to get a PPA proc. At 6 seconds ICD, you just need to use two filler attacks (3s) after the RS (try to use Unload, Rapid Shots, re-apply Incendiary Missile if you need it, or FB if you have low heat). This seems better for PvE (I could even call it a buff), since heat becomes easier to manage and makes a predictable rotation. For PvP I would call it a wash, since you may have less burst without back to back PPA, but then Quell is free.

AP has -2 sec on Quell and can move fast sometimes (with so many ranged attacks with Pyro, being out of range isn't so bad), but I don't see extra Survival in the tree.

[Curbobe]

(03-28-2012 08:33 AM)frmorrison Wrote:  

(03-28-2012 03:57 AM)Zarovich Wrote:  I'm currently a 31 Pyro spec but with the new 1.2 changes on test, I'm wondering if its time for a change. The AP build may be close enough now to Pyro in damage that the increase of Mobility, Surviving, and Utility may warrant the loss of 6% DPS. Also on top of this it appears the heat management of AP will be much better then Pyro once 1.2 goes Live.

What is everyone elses perspective on this?

I feel that Pyro will still be the top spec (but then AP is a close second) for PvE and PvP. While Heat Management is easier in AP, Pyro's management isn't tough. The new Rail shots buff is predictable, so you don't have to spam FB to try to get a PPA proc. At 6 seconds ICD, you just need to use two filler attacks (3s) after the RS (try to use Unload, Rapid Shots, re-apply Incendiary Missile if you need it, or FB if you have low heat). This seems better for PvE (I could even call it a buff), since heat becomes easier to manage and makes a predictable rotation. For PvP I would call it a wash, since you may have less burst without back to back PPA, but then Quell is free.

AP has -2 sec on Quell and can move fast sometimes (with so many ranged attacks with Pyro, being out of range isn't so bad), but I don't see extra Survival in the tree.

as of now, pyros heat management is TERRIBLE compared to ap.

[sleepingzzz]

Has anyone tried using the 4 piece pvp set to get the 15% crit bonus instead of the Rakata combat set for pve? I have rakata for every other slot. I then replaced most of my mods with power & surge. This allows me to skimp out on crit and max out power and surge. I get a better amount of crits with high impact bolt/rail shot due to the set bonus without having to stack a lot of crit. My high impact bolts hits very hard even without the 8% damage bonus because I stack everything into power and surge. It crits a lot more often with the pvp set bonus. The way I test it is timing how fast I can kill the solo tank boss in EV. With full rakata set I usually finish a bit after a sentinel in my guild. With the pvp set I finish right around the same time if not sooner.

The numbers should back it up as vanguards/powertech crit rating scales very poorly. Even if I stack crit I can barely get it past 30% with self buffs. The stats I lose from the 4 piece rakata gear is easily made up with the 15% to crit on high impact bolt.

I got this idea from watching a imp powertech on my server finish every warzone with at least 600k+ dps. I logged on my imp character to talk to him and view his stats. I can't quite get my dps as high as him. Best I've gotten was around 550K in voidstar. I chalk this up to vanguards having about 40 or so lower damage on our rifles than powertechs on their main gun. The extra damage from the main weapon doesn't effect the tech abilities but it sure as hell effects rail shot/HIB since it's white damage.

[frmorrison]

(03-28-2012 04:57 PM)Curbobe Wrote:  as of now, pyros heat management is TERRIBLE compared to ap.

My post is referred to the Test Servers. TLDR is for me experiencing the changes to Pyro on PTS is I feel it is a buff to PvE (but not the theoretical best playing).

(03-28-2012 09:43 PM)sleepingzzz Wrote:  Has anyone tried using the 4 piece pvp set to get the 15% crit bonus instead of the Rakata combat set for pve?

For PvP, you want the crit on RS set bonus as a Pyro even in 1.2. For PvE, it isn't so clear, since the set bonus is either set on the armoring or the armor shell. I know BM/Rakata gear the set bonus is part of the armoring, so if you used BM gear in PvE you lose about ~20 Aim per armoring slot not sure if that is worth it losing all that Aim as well as some Endurance.

However, I have heard that in Champion/Centurion gear the set bonus may be set into the armor shell, but never a screenshot reference. It is likely tied to the armoring slot as well.

[sleepingzzz]

(03-28-2012 09:43 PM)sleepingzzz Wrote:  Has anyone tried using the 4 piece pvp set to get the 15% crit bonus instead of the Rakata combat set for pve?

For PvP, you want the crit on RS set bonus as a Pyro even in 1.2. For PvE, it isn't so clear, since the set bonus is either set on the armoring or the armor shell. I know BM/Rakata gear the set bonus is part of the armoring, so if you used BM gear in PvE you lose about ~20 Aim per armoring slot not sure if that is worth it losing all that Aim as well as some Endurance.

However, I have heard that in Champion/Centurion gear the set bonus may be set into the armor shell, but never a screenshot reference. It is likely tied to the armoring slot as well.

[/quote]

I lose 100 aim and the PVE set bonuses. Fully buff it drops my primary damage by around 10 points (The display bug shows primary damage in the 1000s in which I actually see around 100 points off in the stat window). I sit close to 2000 aim when fully buffed. Losing 100 at this point hardly lowers my damage.
The main thing I lose is 8% extra damage on HIB/RS from the set bonus.

What I gain is a constant 45% chance to crit HIB/RS (25% base + 5% smuggler + 15% bonus). This becomes 70% when I use all my cool downs and power items in which case I want close to the best chance to crit as possible. Using all my cool downs I usually crit around mid 5Ks with sentinel ability. (All the items I use are power increases)

Without the set I have a 30% chance to crit. Using all my cool downs gives me a 55% chance to crit. Nothing is worst then using all the cool downs and not getting a crit with HIB/RS. Another thing is even with the 8% extra damage I have never gotten a 6k hit on a regular boss fight. I can also definitely tell I crit a lot less.