Powertech/Vanguard DPS Compendium

[Jaynen]

(01-21-2012 04:48 AM)MorningMusume Wrote:  

(01-21-2012 01:28 AM)Jaynen Wrote:  We tried hardmode EV last night and the droid enraged at 6% hp (about 100k left) I definitely would agree that pyro is more mobile. Incend missile and combust cylinder are only 20% dps? Thought it would be more. I was really appreciating the fact I could drop railshot/thermal detonator/incend missile, and even flame blast from decent range getting under the boss to rocket punch was more of an issue due to his shockwave and cleave

Lacking charge really does suck, 15% runspeed from high energy cylinder would not make that much of a difference, in fact I think that pyro starts "dpsing" sooner after a knockback due to the ranged attacks you can throw as you run in

Also automated defenses was SERIOUSLY awesome because it meant usually by the time the droid fired missile salvos kolto was always up and I could heal myself a bit

Remember that Burnout only increases periodic damage, all IM isn't periodic damage (around 33%).

And 15% runspeed is a difference, and anyway Pyro only really have one extra skill, the other can't be used unless the time runs out or you don't gain much. You can just Rapid Shots/Rail Shot your way until 10m, and if you had heat to dissipate you'll probably don't lose that much dps.

Let's say you are knocked-back 24m. You need 4 secs to run that distance (6m/s). If you have 15% extra, you need 3.5 secs. So you gain half a second of melee dps for every knockback / change target. That helps over the course of a full fight.

This knockback is upwards of 40m and only rocket punch requires melee range tho, in fact most knockbacks in raids so far have been fairly long and so being able to use moves on the run that are instant and have the 30m range is pretty awesome

[MorningMusume]

(01-21-2012 01:36 PM)Jaynen Wrote:  This knockback is upwards of 40m and only rocket punch requires melee range tho, in fact most knockbacks in raids so far have been fairly long and so being able to use moves on the run that are instant and have the 30m range is pretty awesome

Flame Burst requires 10m and you need it for the Combustion Cylinder DOT, IM and TD are the only extra skills you can cast at range, and one is not always effective if is already on the boss. Also if you use Hydraulic Overrides, you are inmune to almost every knockback, and increases your run speed by 30% for 8 seconds. With HO you can close the gap to the boss in ~3 seconds less, even if you get knocked-back. That's more than 1 GCD that AP isn't at range, so doesn't need an extra ranged skill to use.

So, let's say both specs are knocked back 40 yards.

Pyro needs 8.7 seconds to get to melee range, 5 for 10m, and uses:

0 IM
1.5 TD
3 Rail Shot
4.5 Rapid Shots
6 Flame Burst (under 10m)
7.5 Flame Burst
9 Rocket Punch (already on melee, full rotation now)

AP needs 4.6 seconds, and just 3.5 for 10m, and uses:

0 Rail Shot
1.5 Rapid Shots
3 Rapid Shots (or wait 0.5 and you'll be at 10m)
4.5 Flame Burst (under 10m)
6 Rocket Punch (full Rotation)

There is no real impact on the rotation between the two specs. What will make the difference is if Rail Shot or TD are on CD.

[blott]

(01-21-2012 05:22 PM)MorningMusume Wrote:  ...
Pyro needs 8.7 seconds to get to melee range, 5 for 10m, and uses:

0 IM
1.5 TD
3 Rail Shot
4.5 Rapid Shots
6 Flame Burst (under 10m)
7.5 Flame Burst
9 Rocket Punch (already on melee, full rotation now)
...

I am confused nothing in the pyro rotation or ap rotation you listed requires you to stop moving at any time to return to melee. How could you have different times to get back into range? All of those abilities can be cast while moving except for rocket punch which is your melee opener for both... did I miss something here? Or are you simply saying that you need ~9s to "get back" to your melee based rotation after a knockback of that range?

Also for the first boss in EV the shockwave (knockback you guys are talking about) is about ~15m and roots you in place aswell which in my experiences makes it a total pain in the ass, as the call out from when he says hes going to do it to the time he does it makes it very hard to get out of range now. Has this been retuned from the pre 1.1 version?

[Weidekuh]

AP has +15% runspeed passive and +30% on activation (which breaks movement impairing effects.)

[Jaynen]

@Blott Not the shockwave but the cleave, Ive never avoided the shockwave the range is too large. But he often stuns then cleaves

@Morningmusume If you think APs mobility is good, great, I am speaking from experience raiding as the spec not theorycrafting based on what talents the tree has. It's not really something that's worth debating as I don't think its constructive

In *my* experience raiding as Pyrotech I found almost everytime I got knocked away I was able to incend missile, TD, railshot before I got into flame burst range, sometimes dropping rapid shots or getting to melee range and using RP before FB unless combustible cylinder was already up, also staying out of rocket punch range except when it was up was helping me avoid more of the cleaves

[Coriolis]

Ok, this is probably not the right place to discuss this, but have you tried positioning yourself so you hit one of the towers on KB? That should lower the amount of time until you get back in range. I'm not sure if this works, since I'm usually tanking him on my jugg and getting knocked into one of the forward walls (which cuts the KB to below 30 yards and allows me to immediately taunt/charge). Also, I'm assuming your tank is facing him away from the raid and you're only getting KBed rarely on his aoe one.

Somewhat more on topic, I'm lvling a PT and despite my usual prejudice against lvling as a tank spec I'm really tempted to just go with it since it seems the PT tank spec is very close in DPS to the dps spec (unlike juggs). Is that more or less right? I'm thinking of something like this at lvl 36:

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#301hMGrzoroMZMZb.1

And then filling out the rest of the tanking tree as I lvl. I imagine something like this:

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#301hMG...ZZbIbMdh.1

Might technically be a better hybrid spec at lvl 50 but the points in pyro are basically wasted until you get the final talents so it's probably not a good idea for lvling.

[Jaynen]

For leveling I would definitely recommend shield tech at least until flame shield and the charge. You will be getting hit a lot while leveling so you might as well take advantage of it. Even when I was using other specs I still ended up using Ion Canister because of this

[Kothakk]

(01-21-2012 10:06 AM)KayGBee Wrote:  Just so it is stated, now that we can see the set bonuses here is who should be picking up what:

Combat Medic - Merc Healer
Combat Tech - Powertech AP & Pyro
Eliminator - Merc Arsenal
Supercommando - Powertech Shield Tech (tank)

You really think so? I would think that Eliminator is better than Combat Tech due to the 15% extra crit for railshot (since it procs alot with a 4/6/31 Pyro spec). Sure the 2p-bonus from Eliminator is rubbish since we dont have a charge going Pyro. Thoughts? This is for PvP.

[Mesrith]

(01-26-2012 01:13 AM)Kothakk Wrote:  

(01-21-2012 10:06 AM)KayGBee Wrote:  Just so it is stated, now that we can see the set bonuses here is who should be picking up what:

Combat Medic - Merc Healer
Combat Tech - Powertech AP & Pyro
Eliminator - Merc Arsenal
Supercommando - Powertech Shield Tech (tank)

You really think so? I would think that Eliminator is better than Combat Tech due to the 15% extra crit for railshot (since it procs alot with a 4/6/31 Pyro spec). Sure the 2p-bonus from Eliminator is rubbish since we dont have a charge going Pyro. Thoughts? This is for PvP.

This is a PvE discussion thread, so I'm sure he was talking about the raid sets, which have different bonuses than the PvP gear. Fot what it's worth I'd still prefer the combined bonuses of the PvP Combat Tech set.

[Slowmo]

(01-25-2012 02:33 AM)Coriolis Wrote:  Somewhat more on topic, I'm lvling a PT and despite my usual prejudice against lvling as a tank spec I'm really tempted to just go with it since it seems the PT tank spec is very close in DPS to the dps spec (unlike juggs). Is that more or less right? I'm thinking of something like this at lvl 36:

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#301hMGrzoroMZMZb.1

And then filling out the rest of the tanking tree as I lvl. I imagine something like this:

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#301hMG...ZZbIbMdh.1

Might technically be a better hybrid spec at lvl 50 but the points in pyro are basically wasted until you get the final talents so it's probably not a good idea for lvling.

I leveled as a shield spec but took all the dps talents...something like this...
http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#301hMGrzoroZMcZb.1

after those points I finished out the tanking tree. It allowed plenty of dps to quest and enough damage reduction that I was able to tank any flashpoint I wanted, as well as solo golds and even champion mobs in my quest lines using Mako to heal and keeping her decently geared. In fact, I speced DPS at one point to do some flashpoints with friends and tried to stay with it for leveling and found I couldn't take on 2 silvers at a time in a dps spec so I went back to the shieldspec to level after only a few hours.