Powertech/Vanguard DPS Compendium

[Slashinator]

(01-11-2012 06:58 PM)blott Wrote:  the thing is, it procs a lot... way more then I would expect from a 30% chance part of this I think is because of how Rocket Punch is also giving it a chance so I do not notice the long 70% of no procs from FB as much once again tricking me into thinking this is a worth while idea.

The bleed from Gut / Retractable Blade can't proc it can it? I'll do some testing when I get home from work tonight to see if it's only the initial application. As there's no CD on GuT / RB it should be fairly easy to check. I expect it's only the initial application, either that or it's just a badly worded tooltip.

[Jaynen]

(01-12-2012 01:39 AM)Slashinator Wrote:  

(01-11-2012 06:58 PM)blott Wrote:  the thing is, it procs a lot... way more then I would expect from a 30% chance part of this I think is because of how Rocket Punch is also giving it a chance so I do not notice the long 70% of no procs from FB as much once again tricking me into thinking this is a worth while idea.

The bleed from Gut / Retractable Blade can't proc it can it? I'll do some testing when I get home from work tonight to see if it's only the initial application. As there's no CD on GuT / RB it should be fairly easy to check. I expect it's only the initial application, either that or it's just a badly worded tooltip.

The only thing that procs PPA is flame burst and rocket punch, most of my procs seem to come off rocket punch, I do find myself using flame burst more than I probably should because for shorter fights I am not worried about staying below 40 heat until it's dead. However I will say I always prioritize ED, Rocket Punch, Railshot etc. You hear what to me sounds like an evil laugh and see a fire shield like effect circle your character denoting the proc. Combined with flame shield I have had quite a few instances of rocket punch, railshot, rocket punch, railshot. I actually wonder how close flame shield gets you to the dps of a full pyro or adv prototype build with ppa

Also I do find my flame burst seems to hit closer to Blotts numbers and higher than what was listed here before, I don't however spam flame burst fishing for the proc because usually something with a higher priority is up.

[Oyxl]

(01-12-2012 01:30 AM)Asmiroth Wrote:  I've posted the sheet up on GDOCS here
@Oxyl. I don't have ArmPen in my numbers as I don't know how it works. There are conflicting numbers all over the place and I need to test more to update the data. All the data numbers I posted include the bonuses to crit, surge and nearly all talents (including the On Fire ones). They don't take into account procs as they need to be modeled.

Argh, I failed to notice the DPC part, my mistake. I thought you were basing your statistics off of your own damage averages. Perhaps an assumption that could've been prevented by proper reading.

Where is Unload by the way?

I'm going to try and write a program to simulate a combat phase of 5 minutes and see what we get, based on a priority system. It will initially be based on tool-tip values, but I'll add the ability to manually change the values and leave the option open to add effects from extra power, crit, etc.

For the record, I'm absolutely swarmed with work, both at work and home, so getting this done will take time.

Edit:
Did a little bit of work yesterday, only have a simulation running of Flame Burst with the proc, but I think I'll make steady progress.

[Asmiroth]

(01-12-2012 09:10 PM)Oyxl Wrote:  Where is Unload by the way?

Unload does 265DPC due to armor, bad scaling and no help from skill trees (other than Rain of Fire). Take a look at the spreadsheet I linked in the previous post to see how abilities rank up next to each other.

As a side note, I've also updated the sheet to let people map out tanking gear, stats, damage and stat weights. I'll see if I can't add a model to this sheet as well - I have one already built for Inquisitors, should be similar. Stat weight calculations are also there without too many surprises.

Edit: I've modeled Pyro and Proto and both do practically nearly the exact same DPS - ~1050. And the upper heat limit seems to be 20. I've updated the spreadsheet with a DPS calc.

[Jaynen]

So since you have been working on multiple classes Asmiroth how does this compare to the stuff you have been doing with sorcers? Sorry if this is the wrong place to ask.

If both proto and pyro do same dps, then...

Which one has the simpler and easier to manage heat rotation?

Which one has the best burst in boss vulnerability phases?

Which one is least effected by having to move a lot on boss fights?

[Asmiroth]

(01-14-2012 04:10 AM)Jaynen Wrote:  So since you have been working on multiple classes Asmiroth how does this compare to the stuff you have been doing with sorcers? Sorry if this is the wrong place to ask.

Sorcerers use a cycle of 4 abilities and rarely worry about energy levels. They do a fair chunk more DPS as well (~50%). I play a level 50 sorc and I fully expect a rather large nerf soon.

Quote:If both proto and pyro do same dps, then...

Which one has the simpler and easier to manage heat rotation?

Oddly enough, if you were Shield Tech (yet geared DPS), your DPS would be similar as well (I'm still trying to verify this). The reason for this is the huge need for Rapid Shots to manage heat levels and cooldown management/procs.

Shield tech is the easiest. Proto is a bit easier since nearly everything is on a 15 second cooldown. Pyro has varied cooldowns and the possible proc of RS.

Quote:Which one has the best burst in boss vulnerability phases?

They all suffer from large cooldowns and massive Heat fatigue in burst situations. The only "true burst" ability we have is Flame Burst. Assuming you're at 0 Heat, you can get quite a few blasts of it (14-15) out, along with Vent Heat, but you'd be in a tough spot from that point forward.

Since FB does the most damage for Pyro, I'd go that route for bursts. The DPS increase is about 15%.

Quote:Which one is least effected by having to move a lot on boss fights?

None, the only ability you're casting that has a channel is Flame Thrower, the same for each build.

The one where you have to move the least due to range is Pyro since most of those abilities have a 30 range (except Rocket Punch and Flame Burst).

[Jaynen]

Thanks for the response, Ill pm you to keep from derailing the thread.

The reason I asked is going through EV it seemed like there is quite a few short dps phases followed by a reason to move

IE
Annihiliation Droid missile salvo
Gharj pounce
Soa's vulnerable phases and mind traps etc

[blott]

having issues with your latest ods file, says it needs to recover some unreadable data or something when I try to open it.

[KayGBee]

I'm Powertech Pyro with an 8/2/31 build.

It feels like I am waiting around too often for abilities to come off CD and I just have to sit and Rapid Shot.

I pretty much open with TD and IM (I try to use TSO with one of these), then Rapid Shots during run in followed by FB. RS if PPA procs otherwise RP to try and get another PPA. The rest all comes down to heat levels (Rapid shots) and CDs.

IM is needed for one of the burns and FB for the other. RS will refresh CGC for me so I need to watch when IM dot drops.

I have a few questions though.

1) What should I be shooting for on Crit?
2) Should I be balancing Crit and Surge or just stack the crit?
3) As near as I can figure I should be collecting the Eliminator's pieces of the Rakata gear. Why does it have so much Power on it when we place power low on our stat list?
4) I just got the Columi Bracer piece and am not sure which to obtain. The Eliminator's Vambraces has power while the Combat Medic's Bracers has crit. Which should I pick up?
5) Has anyone come up with a good time/configuration to use Shoulder Slam or is it not really worth trying to throw in?
6) What is our Accuracy soft cap? I've heard we should be shooting for 110% but is that with ALL attacks or just Specials? On my character sheet I am at 100.10%. On mouseover though I have 110.10% for special attacks.

Thank you for the assistance.

[Asmiroth]

(01-14-2012 01:29 PM)KayGBee Wrote:  I have a few questions though.

1) What should I be shooting for on Crit?
2) Should I be balancing Crit and Surge or just stack the crit?
3) As near as I can figure I should be collecting the Eliminator's pieces of the Rakata gear. Why does it have so much Power on it when we place power low on our stat list?
4) I just got the Columi Bracer piece and am not sure which to obtain. The Eliminator's Vambraces has power while the Combat Medic's Bracers has crit. Which should I pick up?
5) Has anyone come up with a good time/configuration to use Shoulder Slam or is it not really worth trying to throw in?
6) What is our Accuracy soft cap? I've heard we should be shooting for 110% but is that with ALL attacks or just Specials? On my character sheet I am at 100.10%. On mouseover though I have 110.10% for special attacks.

Thank you for the assistance.

1) It has a hard cap of 30% from ratings, currently not possible to reach in game. It has diminishing returns too, so the more you stack the worse it gets. Best to balance with Surge.
2) As with 1, if you keep both fairly even then you're pretty well set since they share a very similar curve.
3) Due to skill trees that do not provide a benefit for crits, Power actually has a very high rating and has no diminishing returns. Power is quite good. I would advocate stacking Power and an even amount of Crit/Surge second.
4) Power.
5) For regular enemies, use it right away. For strong enemies, use it when Rail Shot is on cooldown.
6) 100% for regular attacks is needed to get Rapid Shots to hit properly and you're going to be using that skill a LOT. 329 rating is what you need at 50. You seem to be already there.