Powertech/Vanguard DPS Compendium

[kray]

Well, I lied. This patch is going to bring a slight DPS nerf to Pyrotech/Assault and a slight DPS buff to AP/Tactics. Sheet is updated. In my "BiS" gear set...

Pyro/Assault: 1675 -> 1630 = 3% DPS LOSS
AP/Tac: 1500 -> 1525 = 1.7% DPS GAIN

In current gear levels, any variation of a TD/AP using build tops out at around 1590-1600 DPS. Does someone have the stats of the new tier of gear yet? I have a feeling we'll reach the breakeven point with the new gear.

Edit: Fixed to include FT/IC for Pyro/Assault

[Rooks]

I'm also wondering at what point we consider making the switch to AP/Tactics? I know a lot of people use it now and are happy, but there is overwhelming evidence that it is behind Assault/Pyro in damage.

The advantage to AP/Tactics was that the ammo system was forgiving, and it was easy to frontload burst if need be, or sustain damage while never having to worry about resources. Assault was finicky, and will be even more fussy now that we have to adjust the 'rotation' to compensate for the throttled procs.

If it creeps within 4-5% of Assault, is the mobility and simple management sexier?

[Rhaegar]

(03-20-2012 01:57 PM)Rooks Wrote:  Except the build won't work while in High Energy Cell/Gas Cylinder, because of the new mechanics for Ionic Accelerator/PPA, where you need to be in Plasma Cell. Thus my guess that it will hit ammo problems, even with the free Rocket punches/Stockstrikes, since now you will be weaving in more abilities (Pulse cannon is not cheap).

Oh, my mistake. I had forgotten that CG requires High Energy Cell up. So yes, even more reason for me to doubt the validity of a 23/18 build. Like I said, I was never convinced it was good, and heat/ammo management is going to be a real problem for it, now more than ever.

Also, I think its worth confirming that weaving in Pulse Cannon/Assault Plastique/Full Auto is beneficial, mainly because unlike Tactics, we have no way of boosting the damage on Pulse Cannon. Are they worth using over Ion Pulse, even though we're no longer procc-fishing? Should we be saving Stockstrike for that higher chance at proccing Ionic Acc., or should it still remain on cooldown and hope that Ion Pulse proccs it? Is Full-Auto even worth considering, since the damage is only improved by 9% via Rain of Fire.

I don't know, maybe I'm thinking about it too much. I'm a fan of AS, but I have no qualms about switching to Tactics either. I enjoy both.

[frmorrison]

(03-20-2012 02:05 PM)kray Wrote:  

Pyro/Assault: 1675 -> 1615 = 3.5% DPS LOSS
AP/Tac: 1500 -> 1525 = 1.7% DPS GAIN

In current gear levels, any variation of a TD/AP using build tops out at around 1590-1600 DPS. Does someone have the stats of the new tier of gear yet? I have a feeling we'll reach the breakeven point with the new gear.

I think 100 dps is still noticeable, a 6% difference, but at least it is smaller than before, a 11.6% difference, which is huge. Note having to worry about heat sounds interesting, I will give it a try after the patch.

Here is the 1.2 BH dps gear:
http://dulfy.net/wp-content/uploads/2012...dps-70.jpg
It is itemized pretty well.

[kray]

(03-20-2012 02:28 PM)Rhaegar Wrote:  

(03-20-2012 01:57 PM)Rooks Wrote:  Except the build won't work while in High Energy Cell/Gas Cylinder, because of the new mechanics for Ionic Accelerator/PPA, where you need to be in Plasma Cell. Thus my guess that it will hit ammo problems, even with the free Rocket punches/Stockstrikes, since now you will be weaving in more abilities (Pulse cannon is not cheap).

Oh, my mistake. I had forgotten that CG requires High Energy Cell up. So yes, even more reason for me to doubt the validity of a 23/18 build. Like I said, I was never convinced it was good, and heat/ammo management is going to be a real problem for it, now more than ever.

Also, I think its worth confirming that weaving in Pulse Cannon/Assault Plastique/Full Auto is beneficial, mainly because unlike Tactics, we have no way of boosting the damage on Pulse Cannon. Are they worth using over Ion Pulse, even though we're no longer procc-fishing? Should we be saving Stockstrike for that higher chance at proccing Ionic Acc., or should it still remain on cooldown and hope that Ion Pulse proccs it? Is Full-Auto even worth considering, since the damage is only improved by 9% via Rain of Fire.

I don't know, maybe I'm thinking about it too much. I'm a fan of AS, but I have no qualms about switching to Tactics either. I enjoy both.

Full Auto/Unload is, was, and will never be worth using as Vanguards/Powertechs. It does half-decent damage, but takes way too long to cast and has no synergy for us.

As I said before, hybrid builds continue to suck =P.

Waiting on Stockstrike/RP until the ICD of IA/PPA is up is actually, theoretically, a slight DPS gain. However, not only is it incredibly difficult to track without addons, but the DPS gain is so minimal that it's within the range of RNG from fight-to-fight.

However, in investigating this, I discovered something a bit interesting. It appears that for us to do true maximum DPS, we need to talent into Burnout and only use RP to fish for PPA procs while under 30%. I'm going to work to alter the sim a bit to confirm this, but due to the increased dot damage and autoproc of CGC from Flame Burst, FB just does way more damage per use. I'd like to hear the community's thoughts before I do too much work on this.

With the new changes to PPA/IA, Flame Thrower and Pulse Cannon once again become worth it for Pyro/Assault, though they should be last on your priority list right above Flame Burst/Ion Pulse.

[Rooks]

(03-20-2012 03:03 PM)kray Wrote:  Full Auto/Unload is, was, and will never be worth using as Vanguards/Powertechs. It does half-decent damage, but takes way too long to cast and has no synergy for us.

Assault does get a minor boost to FA, and the uses for it are more intangible than a simulator can adjust for (at least, in Ops). I use it often on fights where I find I have to hang back at range at times (which can be every fight, but specifically Annidroid on Salvos, Gharj on island transitions, BT... alot, Jarg & Sorno on their grapple AoE phase, etc etc). It also has the same benefit as Mortar Volley, where it will regen ammo as you are firing it. I find it useful for maintaining ranged pressure while stabilizing resources.

It is not needed for our main rotation, agreed, but to say it is not worth using is a disservice to newer VG/PT DPS who do not know their class well and want to expand their toolset (I find our AC is best when we embrace our utility). I honestly get use out of every ability we have.. except explosive round, of course.

[kray]

Sure, I completely agree. Didn't understand where you were coming from. Even still, I hazard that there are more important abilities to use before you resort to FA/UL in range (Incendiary, Rail/HIB, TD/AP if you have it, etc)!

[frmorrison]

(03-20-2012 03:03 PM)kray Wrote:  Full Auto/Unload is, was, and will never be worth using as Vanguards/Powertechs. It does half-decent damage, but takes way too long to cast and has no synergy for us.

However, in investigating this, I discovered something a bit interesting. It appears that for us to do true maximum DPS, we need to talent into Burnout and only use RP to fish for PPA procs while under 30%. I'm going to work to alter the sim a bit to confirm this, but due to the increased dot damage and autoproc of CGC from Flame Burst, FB just does way more damage per use. I'd like to hear the community's thoughts before I do too much work on this.

Unload seems useful when you are stuck at range, already have IM up, and can't cast Rail Shot, and have low heat. Situational, but seems worth keeping on your bars.

I am not sure what you are saying there. You only want use RP to get PPA below 30%, but then FB does more damage? So what would the priority list be? Since PTs have a execute type ability (Burnout), it makes sense that you could do things differently at that time.

[Rhaegar]

(03-21-2012 02:05 AM)frmorrison Wrote:  I am not sure what you are saying there. You only want use RP to get PPA below 30%, but then FB does more damage? So what would the priority list be? Since PTs have a execute type ability (Burnout), it makes sense that you could do things differently at that time.

Yeah, I was confused about that too. Unless you meant we drop RP altogether below 30% and stick to FB to fish for proccs, which would also give us a high(er?) CGC-DoT up-time?

[kray]

(03-21-2012 10:57 AM)Rhaegar Wrote:  

(03-21-2012 02:05 AM)frmorrison Wrote:  I am not sure what you are saying there. You only want use RP to get PPA below 30%, but then FB does more damage? So what would the priority list be? Since PTs have a execute type ability (Burnout), it makes sense that you could do things differently at that time.

Yeah, I was confused about that too. Unless you meant we drop RP altogether below 30% and stick to FB to fish for proccs, which would also give us a high(er?) CGC-DoT up-time?

Sorry if I was unclear. Either we drop RP completely sub 30% or only use it if PPA is not on ICD. Those are the two options that need to be evaluated.

Either way, we definitely do not want to use RP on cooldown sub 30%