Powertech/Vanguard DPS Compendium

[blott]

(03-08-2012 08:48 PM)Curbobe Wrote:  Well, you math guys have to make the statistics. Gut is dealing more damage over time, ionpulse crits (at least for me) about 500-700 more than with assault, I have way less ammo problems, and I'm a lot faster in situations like switching islands while fighting gharj etc.

at least for solo pve i can say that tactics is better because of the massive aoe boost.

If this is even increasing Gut damage there is a terrible bug going on. Ion Pulse?

I see them fixing this in the next few days if its effecting this many things as pvp specs will be effected a huge amount by this bug and it could get ugly out there.

[Rooks]

Hey, I'd love to be able to go back to tactics, but I'd certainly need some hard numbers to convince me. Until Bioware says otherwise, this is a bug, and one that only boosts a specific area that helps little in a long term boss fight (unless using Sticky Gren as a pseudo-Assault Plastique is actually effective enough).

I guess the question is, is +50% dmg to Mortar Volley and +50% to 4 sticky grens per minute more damage than the pulse cannons. I will keep in mind, it is pretty hard to keep Pulse Cannon on cooldown, and fire it off with five stacks without ignoring your other abilities (or running dry). It would be far easier to keep the 5/5 Pulse Gen stack up and rarely use it for Pulse Cannon, just grenades and volleys.

Then again, even if it is more damage, how long can it last?

Very curious now.

[Curbobe]

(03-08-2012 08:56 PM)blott Wrote:  

(03-08-2012 08:48 PM)Curbobe Wrote:  Well, you math guys have to make the statistics. Gut is dealing more damage over time, ionpulse crits (at least for me) about 500-700 more than with assault, I have way less ammo problems, and I'm a lot faster in situations like switching islands while fighting gharj etc.

at least for solo pve i can say that tactics is better because of the massive aoe boost.

If this is even increasing Gut damage there is a terrible bug going on. Ion Pulse?

I see them fixing this in the next few days if its effecting this many things as pvp specs will be effected a huge amount by this bug and it could get ugly out there.

nono, gut is not increased. it does in general more damage than incediary round (dunno the englisch terms exactly). But i just realized that its kinetic damage and the dot from assault is elemental damage.
I guess I confused you a little bit. Ionpulse does way more damage in the tactics tree because of the increased damage, increased critical bonus. It does a good amount of damage for not having to cast anything.

The proc lasts 15 seconds so as soon as you have 5 stacks you can refresh it by using a ionpulse every now and then. Firepulse combined with rocket punch followed by a sticky and mortal and some filler hammershots + crit high impact bolt could be a rotation. I was never interested in this kind of theorycrafting but this kinda got me curious too.

[blott]

(03-08-2012 09:00 PM)Rooks Wrote:  I guess the question is, is +50% dmg to Mortar Volley and +50% to 4 sticky grens per minute more damage than the pulse cannons. I will keep in mind, it is pretty hard to keep Pulse Cannon on cooldown, and fire it off with five stacks without ignoring your other abilities (or running dry). It would be far easier to keep the 5/5 Pulse Gen stack up and rarely use it for Pulse Cannon, just grenades and volleys.

My thoughts exactly, keep up the buff use Dart/Sticky on cooldown

quick and dirty? load up kray's sim sheet, run a few, check your avg dmg from the attack breakdown page and add 50% to the things we think its adding too calc it out when you get the totals and you should get you a number to think about at least lol. But if this is effecting almost all abilities its going to be fixed soon I would think but hey, the merc heat debuff stacking thing has gone on forever.

[Curbobe]

(03-08-2012 09:12 PM)blott Wrote:  

(03-08-2012 09:00 PM)Rooks Wrote:  I guess the question is, is +50% dmg to Mortar Volley and +50% to 4 sticky grens per minute more damage than the pulse cannons. I will keep in mind, it is pretty hard to keep Pulse Cannon on cooldown, and fire it off with five stacks without ignoring your other abilities (or running dry). It would be far easier to keep the 5/5 Pulse Gen stack up and rarely use it for Pulse Cannon, just grenades and volleys.

quick and dirty? load up kray's sim sheet, run a few, check your avg dmg from the attack breakdown page and add 50% to the things we think its adding too calc it out when you get the totals and you should get you a number to think about at least lol. But if this is effecting almost all abilities its going to be fixed soon I would think but hey, the merc heat debuff stacking thing has gone on forever.

Just to make it clear, it 'only' affects the area of effect abilities. I think you got me a little bit wrong with gut and ionpulse ^^

Unfortunately the simulator sheet does not work for me because I dont have excel..

[Cosmic Osmo]

(03-08-2012 09:18 PM)Curbobe Wrote:  Just to make it clear, it 'only' affects the area of effect abilities. I think you got me a little bit wrong with gut and ionpulse ^^

Unfortunately the simulator sheet does not work for me because I dont have excel..

Everyone is misinterpreting Curbobe's statements regarding Ion pulse and Gut. He is not claiming that pulse generator increases their damage. He is simply putting forth the increased damage of ion pulse (due to havoc training and frontline defense) and higher damage of gut (compred to incendiary round) as reasons why tactics compares well with Assault Spec.

The major claim to test here is that Pulse generator increases the damage of sticky grenade and mortar volley without consuming the charges. If true, the best way to play Tactics would be:

- Use stockstrike, fire pulse, HIB on cooldown, keep gut running
- Stack up 5 pulse generators
- Use mortar volley (if off CD) and sticky grenade, then pulse cannon
- Repeat

This is actually a pretty small buff to the single-target damage of Tactics, as mortar volley is a long CD, and sticky grenade is not actually worth using currently (it does less damage than ion pulse against a single target), so part of that 50% damage increase would only go to making it match ion pulse's damage, before the remainder of the increase actually translated into increased DPS.

[Curbobe]

(03-09-2012 12:50 AM)Cosmic Osmo Wrote:  

(03-08-2012 09:18 PM)Curbobe Wrote:  Just to make it clear, it 'only' affects the area of effect abilities. I think you got me a little bit wrong with gut and ionpulse ^^

Unfortunately the simulator sheet does not work for me because I dont have excel..

Everyone is misinterpreting Curbobe's statements regarding Ion pulse and Gut. He is not claiming that pulse generator increases their damage. He is simply putting forth the increased damage of ion pulse (due to havoc training and frontline defense) and higher damage of gut (compred to incendiary round) as reasons why tactics compares well with Assault Spec.

The major claim to test here is that Pulse generator increases the damage of sticky grenade and mortar volley without consuming the charges. If true, the best way to play Tactics would be:

- Use stockstrike, fire pulse, HIB on cooldown, keep gut running
- Stack up 5 pulse generators
- Use mortar volley (if off CD) and sticky grenade, then pulse cannon
- Repeat

This is actually a pretty small buff to the single-target damage of Tactics, as mortar volley is a long CD, and sticky grenade is not actually worth using currently (it does less damage than ion pulse against a single target), so part of that 50% damage increase would only go to making it match ion pulse's damage, before the remainder of the increase actually translated into increased DPS.

with the 5 procs sticky grenade deals 2200-2300 damge non crit. ionpulse 1140-1220

[Cosmic Osmo]

(03-09-2012 01:54 AM)Curbobe Wrote:  with the 5 procs sticky grenade deals 2200-2300 damge non crit. ionpulse 1140-1220

Where did you get that number, the tooltip? Sticky grenade is mitigated by armor and ion pulse isn't.

With my gear (very close to BiS), calculations based on coefficients show sticky grenade (with 0 pulse cannon stacks) doing 1617 average damage and ion pulse 1287. However, with talents, ion pulse has a higher crit % and higher surge, so taking crits into account, sticky grenade does 2001 and ion pulse 1796. If a boss has 30% damage mitigation from armor, sticky grenade ends up doing only 1401 average damage.

Adding 50% to that number gives us 2101 damage from a fully-stacked sticky grenade, 305 more damage than ion pulse. Using it on cooldown would therefore account for a 20 dps increase.

In reality, the way a tactics rotation works messes with this even further. To get to 5 stacks of pulse generator, you're either delaying pulse cannons or pushing yourself into a bad ammo situation (except when using recharge cells). It's definitely not worth using sticky grenade over ion pulse unless you already have 5 stacks, and it's rare to have 5 stacks of pulse generator with pulse cannon still on cooldown. Slightly confusing this issue is the question of whether the sticky grenade damage is determined by the pulse generator count at the time the sticky grenade is thrown or when it goes off.

However, tactics is definitely a badass AOE spec with this mechanic.

[thrakkemarn]

Maybe I missed it but is it confirmed that the 50% bonus damage applies to all AOE? I will test it for myself but won't be able to respec for a few days.

[frmorrison]

No one other than Curbobe is confirming the numbers, but it seems real. Sadly, a hidden buff for ED/Sticky is not enough to make AP a good build for PvE or PvP, it is still too far behind.

I would assume Sticky/ED damage is based off when it explodes, since for DoTs it takes into account your stats when the DoT fires.