Marksmanship Sniper/Sharpshooter Gunslinger Discussion 1.0-1.2

[Leafblight]

(03-22-2012 06:04 PM)Ferro Wrote:  

(03-22-2012 05:45 PM)Bivak Wrote:  Yeah but only the stacks of the same kind. So there can still be a gunslinger, commando and guardian debuff. Dunno if sage/inq classes have one too.

amirite?

From my understanding of what he said at the guild summit, none will stack, so max of 20% armor reduction. Someone on the PTS will have to confirm this though.

I certainly hope this won't be true. This will make Marks and, to a lesser degree, Eng significantly less useful. If this is true it has the potential to be a MASSIVE debuff.

[Ferro]

(03-22-2012 06:18 PM)Leafblight Wrote:  

(03-22-2012 06:04 PM)Ferro Wrote:  

(03-22-2012 05:45 PM)Bivak Wrote:  Yeah but only the stacks of the same kind. So there can still be a gunslinger, commando and guardian debuff. Dunno if sage/inq classes have one too.

amirite?

From my understanding of what he said at the guild summit, none will stack, so max of 20% armor reduction. Someone on the PTS will have to confirm this though.

I certainly hope this won't be true. This will make Marks and, to a lesser degree, Eng significantly less useful. If this is true it has the potential to be a MASSIVE debuff.

It just means that they may have to re-balance those specs a bit.
Personally I think have boss armor entirely removable was a broken mechanic anyways.

[visceration]

Hopefully testing will prove that false. With all the there debuffs on the bossit's hard enough to see our dots if lethality of the dps spec.

[toaae]

(03-19-2012 11:47 PM)Tibbel Wrote:  

(03-19-2012 11:14 PM)Leafblight Wrote:  So, I'm not Marks so I maybe just am not getting this, but doesn't this give your Sharpshooting brother's an advantage? Since they use two pistols, aren't they making more "ranged attacks" than snipers? And thus their equivalent update in 1.2 will benefit them more, right?

I would think this is a consideration that's being taken into account.

Perhaps only main-hand hits will trigger it. Perhaps only ranged ability uses (i.e. Series of Shots/Speed Shot is 1, Cull/Wounding Shots is 1, etc).

Anyone have a high-level gunslinger or sniper on the PTS to test it out?

I do. But you'd have to walk me through how to test it.

EDIT: Sorry, I have a Gunslinger. I'm not sure how to test this, unless it's just using Flurry of Bolts for 30 minutes and posting the log.

[Bivak]

(03-23-2012 01:56 AM)Ferro Wrote:  

(03-22-2012 06:18 PM)Leafblight Wrote:  

(03-22-2012 06:04 PM)Ferro Wrote:  

(03-22-2012 05:45 PM)Bivak Wrote:  Yeah but only the stacks of the same kind. So there can still be a gunslinger, commando and guardian debuff. Dunno if sage/inq classes have one too.

amirite?

From my understanding of what he said at the guild summit, none will stack, so max of 20% armor reduction. Someone on the PTS will have to confirm this though.

I certainly hope this won't be true. This will make Marks and, to a lesser degree, Eng significantly less useful. If this is true it has the potential to be a MASSIVE debuff.

It just means that they may have to re-balance those specs a bit.
Personally I think have boss armor entirely removable was a broken mechanic anyways.

Hmm, I hope that it won't screw up things in pvp balancing. Another way is to give bosses more internal and elemental resistance/mitigation.

[Ferro]

(03-23-2012 06:50 AM)Bivak Wrote:  

(03-23-2012 01:56 AM)Ferro Wrote:  

(03-22-2012 06:18 PM)Leafblight Wrote:  

(03-22-2012 06:04 PM)Ferro Wrote:  

(03-22-2012 05:45 PM)Bivak Wrote:  Yeah but only the stacks of the same kind. So there can still be a gunslinger, commando and guardian debuff. Dunno if sage/inq classes have one too.

amirite?

From my understanding of what he said at the guild summit, none will stack, so max of 20% armor reduction. Someone on the PTS will have to confirm this though.

I certainly hope this won't be true. This will make Marks and, to a lesser degree, Eng significantly less useful. If this is true it has the potential to be a MASSIVE debuff.

It just means that they may have to re-balance those specs a bit.
Personally I think have boss armor entirely removable was a broken mechanic anyways.

Hmm, I hope that it won't screw up things in pvp balancing. Another way is to give bosses more internal and elemental resistance/mitigation.

There is no way that armor debuffs not stacking would affect pvp balance at all, so no worries there.

[Leafblight]

(03-23-2012 01:56 AM)Ferro Wrote:  

(03-22-2012 06:18 PM)Leafblight Wrote:  

(03-22-2012 06:04 PM)Ferro Wrote:  

(03-22-2012 05:45 PM)Bivak Wrote:  Yeah but only the stacks of the same kind. So there can still be a gunslinger, commando and guardian debuff. Dunno if sage/inq classes have one too.

amirite?

From my understanding of what he said at the guild summit, none will stack, so max of 20% armor reduction. Someone on the PTS will have to confirm this though.

I certainly hope this won't be true. This will make Marks and, to a lesser degree, Eng significantly less useful. If this is true it has the potential to be a MASSIVE debuff.

It just means that they may have to re-balance those specs a bit.
Personally I think have boss armor entirely removable was a broken mechanic anyways.

That would be great if they would rebalance it, as even in the current build people have issues with the amount of mitigation that non-Leth Snipers are facing (particularly in pvp). But, if they remove stacking debuffs and don't get around to "evening things up" till next major patch (which they have shown they aren't likely to make major changes to a class outside of them), that will be (in theory, obviously no hard facts) another 3 months past 1.2. That's a long time to go with 2 out of 3 specs of an Advanced Class being vastly underpowered in pve content. So, as I said before, I really truly hope that this is inaccurate information. This is truthfully, the most distressing thing I have heard out of the 1.2 patch. Ferro, would you be kind enough to provide a source?

[Ferro]

(03-23-2012 10:35 AM)Leafblight Wrote:  

(03-23-2012 01:56 AM)Ferro Wrote:  

(03-22-2012 06:18 PM)Leafblight Wrote:  

(03-22-2012 06:04 PM)Ferro Wrote:  

(03-22-2012 05:45 PM)Bivak Wrote:  Yeah but only the stacks of the same kind. So there can still be a gunslinger, commando and guardian debuff. Dunno if sage/inq classes have one too.

amirite?

From my understanding of what he said at the guild summit, none will stack, so max of 20% armor reduction. Someone on the PTS will have to confirm this though.

I certainly hope this won't be true. This will make Marks and, to a lesser degree, Eng significantly less useful. If this is true it has the potential to be a MASSIVE debuff.

It just means that they may have to re-balance those specs a bit.
Personally I think have boss armor entirely removable was a broken mechanic anyways.

That would be great if they would rebalance it, as even in the current build people have issues with the amount of mitigation that non-Leth Snipers are facing (particularly in pvp). But, if they remove stacking debuffs and don't get around to "evening things up" till next major patch (which they have shown they aren't likely to make major changes to a class outside of them), that will be (in theory, obviously no hard facts) another 3 months past 1.2. That's a long time to go with 2 out of 3 specs of an Advanced Class being vastly underpowered in pve content. So, as I said before, I really truly hope that this is inaccurate information. This is truthfully, the most distressing thing I have heard out of the 1.2 patch. Ferro, would you be kind enough to provide a source?

Well, no way they would be underpowered. Less damage then lethality? Probably. But underpowered compared to other classes no. Especially considering that MM/eng hybrid specs are getting a pretty decent buff from the extra 2 points to spend out of imp assassin and the energy regen and alacrity talent change.

As far as my source, he said it at the guild summit during the pve/operations panel when referencing the difficulty of the current tier.

[hxxr]

Armor debuffs stacking is not a good mechanic. It upsets the balance between 8 and 16 man and enables class stacking beyond 'take one of each for every buff'.

Adding internal/elemental defense just for the fun of it is a horrible idea. Numbers between effects that are mitigated by armor and those that aren't are carefully balanced right now (e.g. the proc relics) and all of those DoTs and what not would have to be reevaluated and see their base damage increased.

And lastly what the hell? Do you even realise that almost all classes heavily rely on kinetic or energy damage? There is not a single filler for any spec that is not mitigated by armor. The only difference compared to Snipers is the defense chance in PvP since Tech and Force attacks are less likely to be resisted.
All that would happen if armor debuffs stop stacking is a overall DPS decrease for all classes wich will be a bit less for those with more damage from that bypasses armor.

[felicity]

@ Tibbel: I was playing with the Sniper sheet tonight, and noticed that either Energy Overrides doesn't seem to be factored in, or I'm not very good at using this sheet, haha.