Shield Tech/Shield Specialist Tanking Discussion

[HonoraryOrange]

I haven't done much testing, and it is hard without a combat log, but with a Columni level weapon, does anyone else feel that often times Rapid Shots does at least as much damage as Flame Burst (even with talents)?

[Xiri]

(01-10-2012 08:01 AM)HonoraryOrange Wrote:  I haven't done much testing, and it is hard without a combat log, but with a Columni level weapon, does anyone else feel that often times Rapid Shots does at least as much damage as Flame Burst (even with talents)?

I'm not a big fan of Flame Burst, personally. If it does more damage, it's only slightly more, and it generates heat, which is probably better reserved for your other attacks and Quell. But Combust makes it pretty nice.

[Mesrith]

Aside from applying Combust, Flame Burst also has 6% more crit chance from Prototype Burn Enhancers. It also will need 10% less Accuracy than Rapid Shots does. Even ignoring all of this and just looking at the damage ranges, I don't understand how this is even a discussion. I'm still only using a Tionese-equivalent weapon, but here's my damage range according to tooltips.

Flame Burst: 713-782
Rapid Shots: 507-715

I've gotten to where I don't use Flame Burst unless I'm at 15 heat or higher, and I still find plenty of time to use it instead of Rapid Shots. If you're sitting at 0 heat, spamming Rapid Shots while you wait for cooldowns to expire, you're wasting resources and threat.

[Jaynen]

Shouldn't flame burst scale off a better weapons higher power rating anyway?

I am hybriding using PPA so flame burst is a good way to get railshot procs when rocket punch is on cooldown

[HonoraryOrange]

Rapid Shots also can proc ion gas cylinder, so I wonder how that adds up comparing it to Flame Burst?

Also, Rapid Shots seems to scale faster than Flame Burst? I'm using a Champion's (Columni level) blaster, 491 top damage:
Rapid Shots: 567-794
Flame Burst: 780-848

So definitely a closer average than Mesrith's.

Flame Burst has 6% more crit, Rapid Shots can proc Ion Gas Cylinder but requires higher accuracy. Flame Burst probably pulls ahead _very_ slightly at the cost of 16 heat. So I guess the big thing is never, ever use Flame Burst if it is going to push you over the magic heat number (i.e. if you have all your other attacks coming off cooldown in the next few seconds, might be better to rapid shots rather than Flame Burst).

[Changeup]

Hello,

Can anyone give any insight as to what are defensive stats should be at before trying to tank Black Talon Hard Mode?

I am getting absolutely crushed, and my stats are as follows:

Health: 14.9k
Damage Reduction: ~49%
Defense Chance: 9.5%
Shield Chance: 36%
Shield Absorb: 36%

I was comparing my stats with a Sith Juggernaut in my guild and the only stats he had that were higher than mine were Defense Chance and Health. He has successfully tanked Black Talon Hard.

Also, is there any math yet telling us which defensive stat is more important as far as Shield Chance/Absorb compared to Defense Chance is? I have been under the assumption that Shield Chance/Absorb would be a slighty better stat to go after, because it would give healers a more consistent health pool to heal as opposed to defense chance.

[Kypsta]

When you're trying to get into hard modes, endurance seems to be the most important thing to stack, because there are a decent amount of enemies that have high damage spikes. That being said, I've successfully tanked several heroics besides BT with stats not much better (16.5k health, 46% shield chance) without any trouble. In fact, BT is so easy these days that I don't drop below 50% ever.

I wouldn't be surprised if the problem isn't your stats, but the healer or possibly the boss strategies. You need to interrupt (or kite out of) the plasma probes on the Calamarian guy, and it's important to interrupt the blast on the optional boss. Both of those could explain it, because otherwise the bosses don't hit hard enough that you should be getting destroyed.

[Mesrith]

(01-10-2012 02:58 PM)HonoraryOrange Wrote:  Rapid Shots also can proc ion gas cylinder, so I wonder how that adds up comparing it to Flame Burst?

Also, Rapid Shots seems to scale faster than Flame Burst? I'm using a Champion's (Columni level) blaster, 491 top damage:
Rapid Shots: 567-794
Flame Burst: 780-848

So definitely a closer average than Mesrith's.

Flame Burst has 6% more crit, Rapid Shots can proc Ion Gas Cylinder but requires higher accuracy. Flame Burst probably pulls ahead _very_ slightly at the cost of 16 heat. So I guess the big thing is never, ever use Flame Burst if it is going to push you over the magic heat number (i.e. if you have all your other attacks coming off cooldown in the next few seconds, might be better to rapid shots rather than Flame Burst).

Yes, nobody is saying that Flame Burst is worth the heat cost if it interferes with your main abilities. It's just a better option for a filler spell if you're low on heat. It works much like Heroic Strike did for warrior tanks in WoW...a resource dump to turn potentially wasted resources into a damage gain that adds up over time.

I think we tend to give Ion Gas too much credit in damage calculations, when in reality we probably lose a large portion of it due to how DoT clipping works. With it hitting on every Rocket Punch, the DoT is already up nearly 100% of the time, so we're only gaining the initial proc damage. I'm still skeptical of the value of Prototype Cylinders for this reason. I think once we have parsers or simulators we may find that we're not even getting a 1% DPS increase from that talent point.

Re: Stats-

Based on other threads on this site, I believe that Defense is by far our best stat right now. Shield and Absorb seem to hit larger diminishing returns around 40%, with Defense hitting them at about 30%. At our current gear levels we have no problem hitting the 40% mark on the first two almost immediately. Defense is harder to come by. Most of our early gear is Accuracy and either Shield or Absorb. To get Defense we have to be selective in which set pieces we select, or use blue mods from Corellia.

[licensetochill]

(01-10-2012 04:38 PM)Changeup Wrote:  Hello,

Can anyone give any insight as to what are defensive stats should be at before trying to tank Black Talon Hard Mode?

I am getting absolutely crushed, and my stats are as follows:

Health: 14.9k
Damage Reduction: ~49%
Defense Chance: 9.5%
Shield Chance: 36%
Shield Absorb: 36%

I was comparing my stats with a Sith Juggernaut in my guild and the only stats he had that were higher than mine were Defense Chance and Health. He has successfully tanked Black Talon Hard.

Also, is there any math yet telling us which defensive stat is more important as far as Shield Chance/Absorb compared to Defense Chance is? I have been under the assumption that Shield Chance/Absorb would be a slighty better stat to go after, because it would give healers a more consistent health pool to heal as opposed to defense chance.

Honestly, I think you should be fine in HM BT with those stats. As I recall, my stats when I first started tanking Hard Modes was something like this:

Health: 15.5k
Damage Reduction: 45%
Defense Chance: 12%
Shield Chance: 30%
Shield Absorb: 35%

So pretty similar to where you're at right now - and I was able to tank BT, Foundry, and Boarding Party with minimal difficulty. I'd consider taking a look at your tactics and the rest of your group, since statistically you shouldn't be having any problems.

[Jaynen]

I've tanked hardmode BT a couple times with stats worse than those. Without any sort of drama. Which part of the dungeon are you having trouble with?

Some tips

For whatever reason you can use your speeders in hardmode BT so your whole party can simply use their speeder and blitz to the first elevator skipping all the robot boarding party dudes

Before triggering the last of the munition stockpiles have everyone full health and cooldowns ready

Tank the robot with you facing a wall so he cant throw you around

Make sure you are using oil slick/energy shield/kolto overload/medpacks/electrocute try not to use them all at once space them out

Use your taunts to drag the commander around so you dont have to stand in the plasma probes, and use quell to interupt as many special attacks that have a cast time as possible (everyone not just you should be doing this)

On the jedi chick have everyone stay close together, and as soon as she starts her suction move immediately move out of range