Shield Tech/Shield Specialist Tanking Discussion

[Asmiroth]

(01-24-2012 08:14 PM)swag Wrote:  Right now i'm taking heat blast because why not, but does anyone have any heat issues? My guild started late; we haven't began Nightmares just yet.

How are you not having Heat issues? Every BH has heat issues, this is the core mechanic of the class

Anyhow, from my numbers Heat Blast deals more damage than Rapid Shot (due to armor) and removes more Heat. The only "instant" ability that deals more damage is Rocket Punch - a full cast Flame Thrower will top it as well.

[Cuba]

(01-25-2012 09:23 AM)Kypsta Wrote:  This. Using it on cooldown maximizes your damage, because you can pump out a bunch of damage with Flame Burst before popping it, essentially getting that damage for no heat cost. It shouldn't be higher priority than Rocket Punch, Rail Shot, Explosive Dart, or keeping Combust up, but it should be used when available.

Exactly. Just wanted to reiterate. Resist the temptation to force Powertech abilities into a defined rotation, or even to make certain abilities purely situational. Heat Blast gives us a powerful tool to better control heat, dps, and threat. It enables us to better frontload threat, as well as using Flame Sweep more liberally on difficult AOE pulls.

I'm sure we've all run into a situation where everything is on cooldown and Rocket Punch isn't proccing. If the situation is stable (no incoming adds or oh sh!t abilities, no extra mobs, in other words very little that could go wrong), I'll simply spam Flame Burst until Heat Blast is off cooldown. Why lose dps using Rapid Shots just because you're not "supposed" to use Flame Burst?

Edit: Not that I spam Flame Burst to the extent that a quick Heat Blast + Rapid Shots won't bring my heat back under control. I'm simply looking for every way to maximize threat/dps - without sacrificing in other areas.

[Pinilla]

(01-27-2012 09:38 AM)Cuba Wrote:  

(01-25-2012 09:23 AM)Kypsta Wrote:  This. Using it on cooldown maximizes your damage, because you can pump out a bunch of damage with Flame Burst before popping it, essentially getting that damage for no heat cost. It shouldn't be higher priority than Rocket Punch, Rail Shot, Explosive Dart, or keeping Combust up, but it should be used when available.

Exactly. Just wanted to reiterate. Resist the temptation to force Powertech abilities into a defined rotation, or even to make certain abilities purely situational. Heat Blast gives us a powerful tool to better control heat, dps, and threat. It enables us to better frontload threat, as well as using Flame Sweep more liberally on difficult AOE pulls.

I'm sure we've all run into a situation where everything is on cooldown and Rocket Punch isn't proccing. If the situation is stable (no incoming adds or oh sh!t abilities, no extra mobs, in other words very little that could go wrong), I'll simply spam Flame Burst until Heat Blast is off cooldown. Why lose dps using Rapid Shots just because you're not "supposed" to use Flame Burst?

Edit: Not that I spam Flame Burst to the extent that a quick Heat Blast + Rapid Shots won't bring my heat back under control. I'm simply looking for every way to maximize threat/dps - without sacrificing in other areas.

Quick question. When you say flame burst...do you mean the bounty hunter equivalent of ion pulse? Because on the chart in the sticky it says Flame Burst = Neural Jolt which is our single target taunt. I don't think you can spam that.

Assuming I'm right...is ion pulse higher dps than spamming our auto autoattack (hammer shot)? I've been in a similar situation with plenty of ammo and not sure if I should spam auto attack or use ion pulse.

[Risingstar]

(01-27-2012 10:19 AM)Pinilla Wrote:  Quick question. When you say flame burst...do you mean the bounty hunter equivalent of ion pulse? Because on the chart in the sticky it says Flame Burst = Neural Jolt which is our single target taunt. I don't think you can spam that.

That chart is from beta. Since release, some of the terms have changed. Flame Burst = Ion Pulse.

With talent Ion Pulse is better DPS than Hammer Shot and applies combustion/static field which you should always keep up. So unless you are having ammo/heat issues, you should use Ion Pulse instead of Hammer Shot.

[Cosmic Osmo]

I think this conversation is being made more complicated than necessary. Flame burst/ion pulse does more damage than rapid/hammer shot, so should be used when you have the ammo. Tanking is pretty simple for us: keep sticky grenade, high impact bolt, stockstrike, and energy blast on cooldown. Alternate hammer shot/ion pulse as appropriate to keep ammo at 9-11 (heat at 8-25). Mortar volley when possible (eg. XRR-3 missile barrage phase).

I have a new question, to see your opinions: Relics! Which ones do people prefer for tanking?

From best to worst, I'd probably rank them like this:
1. Tanking matrix cube (52 aim, 60 end, 18 defense)
2. High (72-77) endurance relics with a damage activation or proc
3. DPS matrix cube (58 aim, 50 end, 24 crit)
4. Endurance+power relics with a defense or shield+absorb activation

I have been using #1 and #2 (with a crit/surge activation), and stacking that activation with battle focus at the beginning of fights to get a head start on threat. However, I respec to dps occasionally, so I'm considering trading in for a dps matrix cube and using 2x72 endurance relics with damage activations. There's a little loss of mitigation from the 18 defense, but effective HP is basically unchanged, and probably a gain in overall threat. I like that tradeoff better than using a tanking matrix cube when DPSing. I'm also not a fan of the defense or shield+absorb activations. Because those stats are already stacked on our gear, adding a huge activation pushes them deep into diminishing returns. Therefor I feel they aren't as valuable of a defensive cooldown as reactive shield or the rakata absorb adrenal. Any thoughts?

[Mesrith]

(01-28-2012 02:50 AM)Cosmic Osmo Wrote:  I'm also not a fan of the defense or shield+absorb activations. Because those stats are already stacked on our gear, adding a huge activation pushes them deep into diminishing returns. Therefor I feel they aren't as valuable of a defensive cooldown as reactive shield or the rakata absorb adrenal. Any thoughts?

In full Rakata/Columi gear, an absorb adrenal (the blue one, not Rakata) gives me something like 7% damage reduction for the duration. That's not a particularly valuable cooldown to me in most situations. I'd rather use the Hyper-Battle Force Adrenal with 450 Surge on it, and pair it up with Explosive Fuel's 25% crit boost. That's a lot of extra threat and damage when you need it.

Your point about the matrix cube is a good one though. If I were our off-tank and switched roles a lot I'd probably prefer the DPS version, but the differences between them aren't huge. I've been using the 185 Shield/Absorb relic as my second, and it gives me 8% shield and 11% absorb on use. That feels pretty solid regardless of diminishing returns, but I could probably afford to use a DPS trinket for extra threat and damage on most fights instead. I'm still getting adjusted to how they've made survivability trivial on most fights while threat feels a bit challenging at times.

I might look at using one of the new Endurance/Passive Damage Proc trinkets from KP if our DPS doesn't get mad at me .

[frmorrison]

(01-28-2012 02:50 AM)Cosmic Osmo Wrote:  I have a new question, to see your opinions: Relics! Which ones do people prefer for tanking?

I feel the "best" relic changes over time. For example, when you first start Ops you likely need the defense from matrix cube, but as dps/healers gear up then the need for threat is more important. Note the tanking relic has Aim, which adds dps. After you feel you have solid defense stats, then you can use dps relics.

I am a big fan of having one passive + one clicky relic, so the best passive is the KP damage proc, then the dps Matrix cube. Then the clicky can be either a defensive proc or a damage boosting stat, depending on safe you feel.

[Ramrok]

personally i prefer using a shield/absorb and a crit/surge one so that i can be prepared for either occasions because alot of times at the begining and curcial moments in a fight, dps is called on to pop all cooldowns and thats not when i should be popping my defensive cooldowns, thats when i should pop my damage cooldowns to keep up instead panicking and overheating after spamming ur skills. matrix cubes are a good start at 50 but i find them being replaced as soon as you get your 2 good stat boosts from relics.

edit: procced relics i find to be quite garbage except maybe the healing one if they use it, but particularly the damage ones are quite terrible.

[frmorrison]

Actually, the healing kp relics are terrible and the damage one are the best currently.

I am a big fan of passive stats, but click ones can be better.