PVP Questions and Answers

[guardian17]

(10-10-2011 05:16 PM)Sol Wrote:  

(10-10-2011 01:29 PM)guardian17 Wrote:  Even though the rage tree is strong for pvp, it has a huge weakness. The entire tree is focused on super strong smashes which require a setup. If for some reason your force crush or force choke fails to land, or your smash itself fails to land, you are left doing mediocre damage. Its too hit or miss for my taste.

As a general rule you're going to hit cap so this can't happen unless the opponent casts a spell that increases your miss rate (insect swarm for Boomies in wow). This takes some of the hit and miss out of the equation. Yes you need to get your full FC or FCr to get the most out of your smash, but 1v1 that shouldn't be an issue unless they trinket and then interrupt, which they'd want to be damn fast at to stop you in time. Yes another player might come along and interrupt you however that is just part of pvp and can happen to anyone.

I really like the idea of this set-up because it means that when I get to you I'm guaranteed to hurt you, badly. I'll wail until your 50% and then start this up with vicious throw, obliterate, force scream, sabre throw... That is a huge amount of damage that only requires 4m range for the initial smash after FC. The rest can be applied up to 10m, so even if they start to kite again you're going to be able to finish them off if you keep in that distance.

I have dueled many rage/focus warriors with my assassin/shadow and when i force shroud their force crush/choke or smash, it really hurts their damage.

[guardian17]

I want to let everyone know: for their theorycrafting purposes that all classes have access to a few pvp consumables.

1. A medpack which heals 75% of your hp on a 5 minute cooldown

2. A recharge consumable which recharges your resource pool to full 5 minute cooldown

Both are pretty cheap to buy and cost pvp tokens.

[Sol]

(10-10-2011 06:49 PM)guardian17 Wrote:  I have dueled many rage/focus warriors with my assassin/shadow and when i force shroud their force crush/choke or smash, it really hurts their damage.

Of course it does, that is the whole point of that ability and other similar ones. Same as when someone does it to you for a big Shock or buffed FL it hurst your damage significantly =p

Also, how many of those fights did you still lose or win? FC/SW is a great tool but it still doens't make them useless if it misses, just not as effective obviously.

Personally I don't generally fight face to face, I look for opponents on the fringe that I can get the jump on at 50%. This isn't always the case and yes 1v1 happens, however this is group PvP and you use your abilities to their strengths, not their weaknesses. Save your FC/shockwave until you know you can use it properly.

The whole point about PvP is properly timing your abilities and some classes are always going to have a good counter to others (lock fear/wars in wow), however that doesn't make the class horrible to play, just that they need to be a bit more craftier when coming up against those counter classes. e.g, you Force shroud after my FC and I simply wait until it wears off before using smash and fill with other abilities or go defensive myself. I'm certainly not going to FC while you have Shroud up that's for sure and those that are don't know what they're doing imo.

[guardian17]

My point is that it is much easier to screw up a rage/focus warriors rotation then other classes, because they have to setup those huge smashes with force crush/force choke ticks. Anyways here is the deal.

-If you want to top the warzone damage meters using melee and dont care about dying alot if you dont have a healer, roll sentinel/marauder. They absolutely tear people apart. Dying in warzones has virtually no penalty, just a 10 seconds run back to the battlefield.

-If you want to top the warzone damage meters using ranged, especially in hutball, and be quite hard to kill but be somewhat immobile, roll sniper. They have insane damage, and in huttball they can knock people off bridges very easily. They also have tons of CC. Very strong class but cover is a strange mechanic.

-If you want to be overpowered in a team setting roll mercenary or sorcerror. These classes can simultaneously top a damage meter AND healing meter.

-If you want to be self reliant, and have multiple escapes from battles (thus minimizing your deaths) roll operative or assassin. These classes will have the best kill/death ratios in warzones when good players are using them, but it is difficult to top the damage meters if there are competant marauders/snipers on your team.

Classes are fairly well balanced. Different classes excel in different aspects of PVP. Some classes are better at killing, some better at surviving, some better at certain maps, etc...

[Sol]

Well I've made it into beta testing now as well so I'll be interested to check things out that's for sure!

[Ezmode]

Where does a Juggernaut fit in? Or are you grouping them with Marauders?

[guardian17]

I did not see any juggernauts perform well in pvp. This could just be due to sheer luck though.

[guardian17]

Most effective PVP classes: updated opinion and world of warcraft comparisons.

Top Tier

1. Sorcerror/Sage (All aspects of pvp) class is similar to a priest/mage/warlock hybrid
2. Mercenary/Commando (Group pvp) class is similar to a paladin/hunter hybrid
3. Operative/Scoundrel (All aspects of pvp) class is similar to a rogue/druid hybrid

Mid Tier

4. Powertech/Vanguard (jack of all trades, master of none) class is unique and is somewhat similar to a paladin/hunter
5. Sniper/Gunslinger (strong in huttball) class is very unique, most similar to an immobile hunter with more CC
6. Assassin/Shadow (strong in solo pvp) class is similar to a shaman/rogue/deathknight hybrid
7. Marauder/Sentinel (strong in group pvp, especially with a healer) class is similar to a warrior

Fail Tier:

8. Juggernaut/Guardian (terrible) class is similar to a warrior

-All the best pvp classes for groups are healing AC's
-The three worst classes are all melee
-The best overall melee classes are operative/scoundrel and powertech/vanguard, and they are melee hybrids with ranged attacks
-The assassin/shadow and the operative/scoundrel appear to be the best 1on1 classes but only by a miniscule margin. 1on1 seems significantly better balanced in this game then in WOW.
-The healing AC's are the best in groups, and by a significant margin. This is the area of balance that needs the most work. Healers decide games.
-In the right hands, I can see the operative/scoundrel being the best class in the game for pvp overall. The sorcerror/sage is generally considered the most overpowered among most beta testers and for good reason, they are good at everything and have no real weakness. Mercenary/Commando is probably the strongest in group pvp although only average in solo pvp. Assassin/Shadow is somewhat strong 1on1 in the right hands, but only average in group pvp as they cannot put out the damage of some other classes that do massive aoe damage to clusters of people. Snipers and marauders can absolutely dominate the damage charts in warzones under the right circumstances. The juggernaut seems to be bad at everything, although a focus/rage specd jugg/guardian might perform similarly to a marauder/sentinel for damage.
-The highest damage in a warzone Ive seen put out was by a sniper
-The second highest damage ive seen put out was by a marauder
-At lower levels, sorcerror/sage and commando/mercenary dominate the damage meters. At higher levels, marauders/sentinel and sniper/gunslinger dominate the damage meters
-Often times the combined damage + healing meter of a sorcerror/sage, operative/scoundrel, or mercenary/commando tops out any AC that focuses on damage alone, which is one reason why healing AC's are overall the best, even when not spec for healing.
-Tanks are only good when they have a dedicated healer, otherwise trying to absorb 50% of everyones damage just sends you to the respawn room repeatedly.
-The classes are actually balanced quite well and there is no class that is absolutely awful or significantly overpowered. They need to make a few adjustments to the warrior AC's like making the second gap closer a base ability, and perhaps improving the latency of the game so melee characters can actually hit their targets, and they will be fine.

[SublimeStyle]

(10-13-2011 02:39 PM)guardian17 Wrote:  Most effective PVP classes: updated opinion and world of warcraft comparisons.

Top Tier

1. Sorcerror/Sage (All aspects of pvp) class is similar to a priest/mage/warlock hybrid

3. Operative/Scoundrel (All aspects of pvp) class is similar to a rogue/druid hybrid

Do you have any idea what spec is most effective for each class? I know in your earlier post about scoundrel pvp you mentioned that the 30/11 scrapper/sawbones spec was the best, is this still true in the new build? Since Sorcerer and Operative will be my two main classes, I'd like to hear a little more detail about what the most effective specs/rotations are for each one in mid to high level pvp. Is the same lightening/corruption hybrid spec for the sorcerer also effective or do they pull some talents from the madness tree as well? Or is it madness-focused with a few points from corruption and no lightening?

[klipsis]

I'm curious if anyone has any thoughts on stealth and it's usefulness and utility for an operative in a PVP environment. I wasn't able to really get a feel for the ability in my limited play time, so I'm curious how a stealth healer is going to work at high levels.