Sorc Healing PvP Discussion

[Varkeer]

I see the points you all have made, I guess part of it was that I was coming at the build with the mindset of being a healer's healer.

So I wanted to put as many points in the healing and helping mitigate damage with -% taken etc.

I am sure with experience in the game once it is out, and playing with my guild in our pvp matches, will also go a long way in helping all of us understand what we need to do to help our teams out.

Who knows what will change in the coming months with feedback,buffs, and nerfs too.

[theoriginalaks]

(12-12-2011 03:30 PM)Kor Wrote:  

(12-12-2011 01:33 PM)theoriginalaks Wrote:  Hmm...

I honestly hate how Bioware is handling the hybridization between the trees. If subversion is that useless, even if you switch to Exsanguinate you are still forced to take either one point in convection or lightning spire. Neither of those options are entertaining.

Well, it is a damage tree. You can kinda take it as a given that the more points you put in it, the more those talents will focus on damage dealt. They didn't design Lightning as a tree just for sub-specing into for healing, it's supposed to be a stand-alone DPS tree. The fact that it has good utility talents in the 4th tier for PvP healing in no way negates the fact that it's a dps tree. Frankly, it would be bad design if you could get to the 4th tier in the tree without taking any solely dps talents.

Consider Blizzard or Trion and how they handle tree design. Generally the lower end of the trees try to work to compliment at least one other tree before branching heavily off into spec specific bonuses. Bioware so far has not followed this philosophy for at least the inquisitor and warrior classes and it makes specing a bit frustrating as it feels like a step backward.

They do provide a bit of compliment but they lack polish compared to the other mmos, which is absolutely understandable if still frustrating for an unreleased game. No one expects complimenting up half way through the tree but something more concrete lower down would be nice.

[Kaedis]

Quote:Consider Blizzard or Trion and how they handle tree design. Generally the lower end of the trees try to work to compliment at least one other tree before branching heavily off into spec specific bonuses. Bioware so far has not followed this philosophy for at least the inquisitor and warrior classes and it makes specing a bit frustrating as it feels like a step backward.

They do provide a bit of compliment but they lack polish compared to the other mmos, which is absolutely understandable if still frustrating for an unreleased game. No one expects complimenting up half way through the tree but something more concrete lower down would be nice.

Lack of polish is arguable. They could be approaching this more from a Blizzard-like stance, where tiers 1 and 2 are synergistic, while t3+ is solely the grounds of that tree's focus, with occasional utility talents that end up being good for other trees. This actually sorta makes sense, when you think about it. The idea of a true hybrid build that somehow only fills one of the two roles of the trees being dipped into is rather poor design. If you go 31 points into a tree, tiers 1 and 2 are the only ones you can subspec into in other trees, and if you go further than that, you're sacrificing some of your prowess in the role of your main tree in exchange for some synergy that comes wrapped in the prowess of your subspec tree. Sounds like the talents are working as intended.

The only glaring issue I can ID off the top of my head is Crackling Charge in T1 Madness for 'Sins. For a DPS 'Sin, it's a choice between this talent, which provides benefit only to a deep-Madness spec, or Sith Defiance, which is similarly [mostly] useless to a DPS 'sin. If it affected all Discharges, rather than just Lightning, and ideally if Sith Defiance was a 3-point talent instead of 2, it would be a tier 1. Exploitive Strike and Crackling Charge for both Deception and Madness 'Sins, Dith Defiance and Crackling Charge for Darkness.

You could probably argue the same thing about T1 Madness for Corruption Sorcs, incidentally. At least Lightning is well designed, at least in T1 and 2. You can 7 points into those two tiers for benefit entirely geared towards healing. Expecting more than that is probably a bit foolish.

[Klaxius]

@Kor and other experienced Sage/Sorc healers.

I was thinking about using a build along these lines BUILD

This build optimizes PvP healing utility (getting talented rejuvenate, healing trance). It gets talented force armor, without wasting skill points in the lightning tree (9% cost reduction + bigger fp = a great thing in my book). And then it maximizes DPS during healing downtime by maximizing the usefulness of Telekinetic Throw.

I realize that my first priority in PvP is going to be healing. That is why I am rolling a Seer Sage. I put up huge healing numbers in 7 different builds of BETA. What I am trying to do with this build is 2 things.

1) Increase DPS in healing downtime (like I said before).
2) Increase usefulness in 1v1, 2v2, 2v1 scenarios without losing healing effectiveness.

I see goal number 2 as a main problem for full healing spec'd sages/sorcs b/c if you get caught 1v1 (which does happen), you have almost no tools to fight and win. You can heal the DPS forcing a Mexican standoff until you run out of force. You can run, or you can die. This build is designed to help you stay and fight when necessary.

[theoriginalaks]

Honestly as a healer in group pvp if there is down time then your dps is simply not needed such as either your side is winning the skirmish or there is no one left to hit. So essentially all of the points spent into dps are useless as they are only applicable after you are already winning and then they hurt you when you are not. This is the reason its a bad idea for a healer to spec heavily into damage. Simply put, if there is healing down time then you don't need to dps, if there isn't then you don't have time to dps. So why spend the points on it?

Look at Priest/Mage or Priest/Mage/Rogue in WoW. Those comps boast the most offensive healer play style but the priest still always specs to maximize healing. You can be an offensive healer but spend your talents until you are certain there is nothing left of relative value to improve your first job before once considering anything else.

[nixonine]

Anyone have an updated PvP SI/Sorc Heal talent tree?

[Petrus]

After playing warzones and open world pvp at 50 for three days, I'm strongly of the opinion that you should spec into a full healing PVE build. A few extra points can go into the affliction slow or something similar for a bit of utility, but I found myself either healing the whole time, or having no one to fight. There was never really a time where I could sit there and dps, because most of the time I was the only healer in the group.

The Sorcerer's AoE heal is very strong, and we still have enough utility with a heal build to be extremely useful. I found that most of my "downtime" as far as healing went was spent trying to CC and, more importantly, interrupt other healers. From what I've seen interrupting a couple heals on the enemy healer is worth far more than any dps talent you can take.

Spend your time healing and CCing/interupting, and you'll much more of an asset to your team than if you try to toss out a few FL or dots every now and again. If you have downtime to dps, stick a shield on everyone in your group instead. It's good for a couple attacks from an enemy, and having a fully shielded team can easily turn the tide of a battle.


That said, if you truly want to be a hybrid, I highly recommend going 14 points into madness for the FL talents, and the rest into corruption up to innervate. That leaves you 6 points you can either spend in Lighting for force (100 extra force and spells cost 9% less) or you can throw them into madness/corruption for some pvp talents.