Sith Assassin PvP

[GWARRR]

These are the two builds I would personally currently consider the most for PvP Assassins:

Darkness hybrid (Harnessed Darkness [HD] variant)
Darkness hybrid (Obfuscation variant)

The reason why my trees differentiate is because I think the 10 points in the Madness tree are still very well spent. Chain Shock is still exceptionally good. The difference between the two I linked above is HD vs. Obfuscation. I think it may boil down to playstyle: if you're in the action more and don't need the 15% move speed as much, then there's little reason to get Obfuscation when you can be using Harnessed Darkness for epic Force Lightnings. If you play moving around a lot more, i.e. stealthing to take out squishies, then yeah, I'd say the Obfuscation build is better. But if you consider HD a skill to build around and exploit as much as possible, then I think you have to go with a Chain Shock build (see math below).

Plus, if you're going to be abusing Harnessed Darkness, your amount of movement will not be as much (i.e. constantly trying to set up Force Lightning), so your use of Obfuscation is not nearly as efficient as, say, someone who goes around picking off people. Therefore, I think you're better off trading away the extra movement speed to make sure your FLs are going nuts. You could get both Obfuscation and Harnessed Darkness, but you're not going to be using HD to its maximum potential. You could reach some efficient balance in gameplay, but I would imagine that most people would unwittingly end up leaning towards either "using" Obfuscation more or more towards "using" Harnessed Darkness, and there would be few people that could attain that perfect balance. Using Obfuscation will tend towards running around and taking out squishies, meaning you're being more DPS while Harnessed Darkness means you're a bit more static, but you'll be self-healing and tankier (allowing you to utilize Guard as a tanky character). Therefore, I think it's more logical to distinguish Obfuscate vs. Harnessed Darkness more than anything else because they lend themselves to different playstyles.

I probably see myself as a HD player anyways, I think it's a sweet skill and it lets me get max Nerve Wracking for that little bit of extra awesome on the top.

*snip*, my math was based on a false assumption

[Piree]

With "that extra shock" you assume chain shock will also proc Harned Darkness?
I don't think it will, because if it does, it will be considered as a real "Shock" and can also trigger the Chain shock again. Which means you can have an infinite loop of chain shocks if you are very lucky.

If I check your rotation, I see you are using Trash a lot, but why don't you take 'Claws of Decay', increased Critical damage by 50% which I think is one of the best talents there is.

Also, why do you have 1 point in Nerve Wrecking in your Obfuscation build? I don't know if you just missed it, but you can put it in Death Field or Claws of Decay. I think that will increase your DPS much more then the 3% extra damage for 3 seconds.

And what about EE? I've never thought the skill had any use, I think Dark Charge damage and healing sux that bad that a 9% can't do much.
I would put it in Lightning Reflexes, increases melee and ranged defense by 4% and you can get 1% force every second extra. Might not sound much, but with Dark Ward active we got like 35% (20% base) shield chance? I'm going to assume that whener you shield something it will say "Deflect" for Ranged/Force and "Parry" for melee?

And just the Obfuscation build overall. We are still tanks, I don't think we will be stealthing all the time. + Stealth speed is already fast, you can get to your target really fast. I just think using those 3 points to make your overall DPS much better is what I would do.

My build: http://torguild.net/calculator/sith-inqu...2201000000

With 2 Optional points. I put them in Haunted Dreams. Where you can put them:

- Haunted dreams obviously, Instant Whirlwind and a 2 sec stun afterwards. Can ruin a charging warriors opener, can let you escape while running and is another interrupt, but this one has a long range.
- Corrupted Flesh: I don't know all the classes that use DoTs, but the sorcerers do have some. A 15% damage reduction is very good if you are having problems dying from classes whose main damage abilities are DoTs.
- Vampiric Embrace: If you seem to never have problems surviving or being kited, your points should go here!

(- Duplicity: We will rarely stand behind our target in 1v1 fight, but if you put like 1 point in there which gives a 10% chance, and if the buff stays long enough, we might use it once and get a high damage ability on the target. I did not go for this because of the "Requires to be behind a target", but if your playstyle as a tank is to stand behind the target, this can be useful)

You will have Death Field here to throw somewhere before you charge + You got crushing darkness which I think will be a very good ability because it has short duration and deals damage instantly. It will have no Casting Time or Force cost with Raze.

[GWARRR]

(10-16-2011 09:49 PM)Piree Wrote:  With "that extra shock" you assume chain shock will also proc Harned Darkness?
I don't think it will, because if it does, it will be considered as a real "Shock" and can also trigger the Chain shock again. Which means you can have an infinite loop of chain shocks if you are very lucky.

If it doesn't, then quite obviously all the math I did just went out the window. And the more I think about it, the more that makes sense. The XML code also says nothing about capping the Shocks (to, say, 2 total Shocks) so...yeah. Never mind.

Quote:And what about EE? I've never thought the skill had any use, I think Dark Charge damage and healing sux that bad that a 9% can't do much.
I would put it in Lightning Reflexes, increases melee and ranged defense by 4% and you can get 1% force every second extra. Might not sound much, but with Dark Ward active we got like 35% (20% base) shield chance? I'm going to assume that whener you shield something it will say "Deflect" for Ranged/Force and "Parry" for melee?

Tankier builds are better equipped to use this. I like the idea a lot since that'll probably be more like what I'll do. I kept bouncing back and forth between EE and SS before giving up and just throwing my points into EE because I wasn't reaching a solution I was satisfied with. That being said, if you only have 1pt over I think you may as well throw that point into SS instead of EE, since 2% proc will probably be more useful than 3% damage. Just to note, I think it'll be around 55% shield chance if I remember correctly. 20% base from nice shields, 20% from Dark Charge, 15% from Dark Ward, which, now that I think about it, means that you'll be getting Force back from Lightning Reflexes rather often.

Quote:And just the Obfuscation build overall. We are still tanks, I don't think we will be stealthing all the time. + Stealth speed is already fast, you can get to your target really fast. I just think using those 3 points to make your overall DPS much better is what I would do.

I don't think Obfuscation is a "critical" Assassin PvP skill, ergo I didn't spend as much time on it and the spec I gave is not nearly what it should be That being said, I think if your playstyle lends to to it, Obfuscation is an essential choice, but that may be better suited for a Deception/Darkness hybrid rather than the other way around.

Quote:My build: http://torguild.net/calculator/sith-inqu...2201000000

I think given the above changes, this skeleton for tankier Assassin PvP play would be good, leaving 5pts up for grabs. I still really, really like Nerve Wracking, especially in team fights. Keep in mind NW works off of Electrocute also, which is a total of 10s of nerve-wracking excellence per minute (3s per Spike on a CD of 30s, and 4s of Electrocute per minute). Since the 9% damage increase applies for everyone...working with another DPS character, you can flag a particular person, put a Spike down on them, then Electrocute and if you both dump all your skills on an enemy, there's pretty much 0 ways that they're making it out of there alive. For me, the other two points could go into Claws of Decay, for better Thrashing, or Dark Embrace (for better openings into rotations from Stealth). I'm not sure which at the moment though, my initial thought had been to go with Dark Embrace but Lightning Reflexes will likely compensate for the lost 50% Force regen / 6s lost at the very least if a fight goes past the early stages, so Claws of Decay sounds much better. Basically...the only difference between your build and mine is Raze + Haunted Dreams for Nerve Wracking.

[valep]

how good is assassin in pvp compared to lightning and marauder?

[Piree]

(10-17-2011 01:29 AM)Darth GWARRR Wrote:  I don't think Obfuscation is a "critical" Assassin PvP skill, ergo I didn't spend as much time on it and the spec I gave is not nearly what it should be That being said, I think if your playstyle lends to to it, Obfuscation is an essential choice, but that may be better suited for a Deception/Darkness hybrid rather than the other way around.

We are still tanks, we got a lot of defense and self-heals. We shouldn't let someone be hitting on the Sorcerer helping us, we should make sure with the Debuff I can't remember the name anymore that reduces the damage taken if the target is not hitting you, and all our other tanking abilties to help our teammates. Obfuscation should be essential if you are a squishy target like the Deception Assassin. But I will probably just grab everyone to me, or stun them and then run to them instead of waiting 5 minutes in stealth until someone passes by me.

Quote:I think given the above changes, this skeleton for tankier Assassin PvP play would be good, leaving 5pts up for grabs. I still really, really like Nerve Wracking, especially in team fights. Keep in mind NW works off of Electrocute also, which is a total of 10s of nerve-wracking excellence per minute (3s per Spike on a CD of 30s, and 4s of Electrocute per minute). Since the 9% damage increase applies for everyone...working with another DPS character, you can flag a particular person, put a Spike down on them, then Electrocute and if you both dump all your skills on an enemy, there's pretty much 0 ways that they're making it out of there alive. For me, the other two points could go into Claws of Decay, for better Thrashing, or Dark Embrace (for better openings into rotations from Stealth). I'm not sure which at the moment though, my initial thought had been to go with Dark Embrace but Lightning Reflexes will likely compensate for the lost 50% Force regen / 6s lost at the very least if a fight goes past the early stages, so Claws of Decay sounds much better. Basically...the only difference between your build and mine is Raze + Haunted Dreams for Nerve Wracking.

I don't get why u still see Claws of Decay as something optional, It's 2 points that will increase your dps A LOT with some decent crit chance. Our rotation consists mainly of Trash/Shock. Nerve wrecking is indeed good in groups, but from what I've read, especially with Obfuscation, you are mostly going to play alone. If you are always going to be in a group, then Nerve Wrecking is pretty good, but otherwise I wouldn't spend 3 points in there.

[Rising]

Although I have a different build, I do find Harnessed Darkness very interesting, and i decided to slightly mod gwar's build.

http://torguild.net/calculator/sith-inqu...2000000000

Nerve Wracking is useless IMO, because neither Spike nor Electrocute lasts long enough to take advantage of that 9% damage buff. Instead I took Eye of the Storm, which makes whirlwind a much more useful cc, Swelling Shadows, Electric Execution because Dark Charges already proc more frequently than others this is a natural DPS talent. And Lightning Reflexes, one of my favorite tier 1 abilities.

Claws of Decay make sense here because of Exploitative Strikes, and thrash is something we'll be spamming anyway. I dropped Dark Embrace here but you could easily take 1 point away from Static Cling and distribute it there.

ps- oh yeah i took out Premonition because its only used to catch lazy people who don't max out their stealth talent. The 1/2% defense bonus isn't worth it either. Lightning Reflexes FTW.

[Sol]

After personally using dark embrace I can't see my build without it. It is purely awesome to spam maul and watch their health plummet and still have enough force to continue applying pressure. I'll take one point out of static cling as double strike/thrash hits twice anyways so 50% should guarantee a snare on that hit and also a point out of claws of decay. yes it's a 25% loss of crit damage on a main spam ability but spamming maul from the onset is better imo.

Secondly, your comment regarding nerve wracking is incorrect. Set up right, you can spike to maul for an additional 9% damage on your hardest hitting ability. Have a friend there and time it right you can stun into instant crit abilities with a further 9% damage which is far better than swelling shadows which gives an additional 4% to an ability that already has a 50% proc chance.

Also, I'll take a further 3% on endurance for pvp over 9% increase on dark ward damage as it is 9% of stuff all vs 3% of your second most abundant stat after Willpower. Dark Charge damage is going to be extremely minimal regardless of those 3 points, I'd rather effective health and let me other abilities do thier job. Dark charge is for the heal and armour buff.

Also, I don't think that Madness is the way to go now that Obfuscation increases blanket run speed by 15%. As we have no closers other than force pull on a 1min CD, this is vital to staying on target. Also, induction and darkswell both have excellent burst potential and also allows you to actually continue healing through force cloak.

Here is the build I'm looking to trial first.

Does not offer the ease of play that a madness build does (maul being positional) but with some finese and practise I see this being really powerfull opening and then winning through attrition.

[Rising]

I see you've changed your stance on Maul....

[Sol]

I was critting for 2.5k at level 10 yesterday man...opinion changed!! lol

[guardian17]

In my opinion, the following base is mandatory for an optimal pvp build.

http://torguild.net/calculator/sith-inqu...0000000000
http://torguild.net/calculator/jedi-cons...0000000000

The remaining points (including the 1 point in shroud of darkness) are open to customization.