Vengeance DPS Compendium

[FoN777]

(11-22-2011 09:41 AM)weede Wrote:  have 2 nice utility spells for you
Guard

Guard
Sith Warrior (Juggernaut)

Range: 30m
Activation time: Instant
Mirror: Guard

Guards the target while it remains within 15 meters. While active, the target takes 5% less damage and generates 25% less threat. In addition, 50% of all incoming damage from enemy players is transferred back to you. Requires Soresu Form.

and Taunt

Taunt
Sith Warrior (Juggernaut)

Range: 30m
Activation time: Instant
Cooldown: 15 secs
Mirror: Taunt

Taunts the target, forcing it to attack the Warrior for 6 seconds. Player targets deal 30% less damage when attacking anyone other than you. Lasts 6 seconds.

I said DPS Juggernaut. Which means you're not going to be in your defensive form to be able to use Guard and Taunt would obviously be ONLY for PvP unless you want to be squished like a bug in Operations.

[FoN777]

(11-22-2011 10:29 AM)Darth GWARRR Wrote:  Well, if you need a Sunder debuff for operations (every raid should probably have at least 1), a Juggernaut is one of the few sources of it, in addition to the aforementioned Taunt and Guard.

They also brought down the nerfhammer on Marauders this recent build (supposed Gold build for launch). So...if you're ok with playing an underpowered class at launch, sounds cool. Theoretically, it'll be fixed soon (ideally by the time everyone starts raiding). For PvP unless they're going Immortal/Vengeance hybrids or full Immortal, I'd prefer the Marauder. A Juggernaut not running Soresu in PvP is a very squishy Juggernaut, indeed.

Thanks for the response!

1. We'll definitely have a Juggernaut Tank for handling the Sunders.
2. I play Marauder as my main and have been in closed beta for months and can assure you that this comment is absolutely untrue. Marauders got a BUFF in this latest patch. Not really in damage (Increased cooldowns on abilities but those same abilities now do more damage/create more rage, etc) but the temporary buffs we now bring to the table are awesome.

Let me give you guys a bit more details so you know where I'm coming from with this question. I'm the Class Lead (Sith Warrior) for a large hardcore PvP and PvE guild so we're very much into min/max'ing everying. With that said, my GM has requested that I explain why he should allow a DPS spec'd (Not Tank spec'd, we all know how viable they are in both PvE and PvP) Juggernaut to join our raids (PvP and PvE respectively) when we have plenty of Marauders that are just as quality of players to bring instead.

He's basically wanting to just dismiss DPS Juggernauts as a fail spec (For now) and not even allow if to be used. Iin his opinion, if you want to play a top DPS Melee class you should be playing an Assasin or Marauder and honestly, I'm falling short defending Juggernaut for this role.

Thanks again for any help you guys can give me on this! Mucho appreciated!

[Sol]

I have to say that I agree with your statement that for DPS purposes only and in a min/max light the marauder wins every time. Even the dev's have stated that the Jugg will have comprable dps (wihtin 5%) but with a little more utility. As far as raiding situations go, I played a ret pally in HM's and in really tricky situations I could pop a defensive CD and semi-tank until a brez popped or another solution was found. While this isn't a dps increase at first glance, we would have completely wiped had it been another class without this utility. This resulted in an over dps increase as the encounter could conitnue, rather than wiping. Dead = zero dps.

For me personally, no raid every goes 100% according to plan, so having the added flexibility of even just 1 Jugg in a 16 man raid would be more beneficial than stacking 2 marauders, especially considering as dev's have stated that there woudn't be more than 5% difference between dps,.

That is my justification for having at least one dps Jugg in the raid. Their numbers are similar, but they also have more flexibility in oh sh!t moments than a Marauder. Just doing better dps isn't always what makes a class better imo, the entire picture neesd to be considered.

[Kaedis]

Quote:2. I play Marauder as my main and have been in closed beta for months and can assure you that this comment is absolutely untrue. Marauders got a BUFF in this latest patch. Not really in damage (Increased cooldowns on abilities but those same abilities now do more damage/create more rage, etc) but the temporary buffs we now bring to the table are awesome.

Can you comment (in the Anni thread please) on the changes we've heard for Battering Assault, then? Last I heard, they more than tripled the CD, but decreased it's damage (rage generation per time period decreased, but rage generation advantage over using Assault per time period increased). Annihilate is still almost impossible to fit in our cycle while maintaining other abilities. We even lost our free Scream. In addition, most reports show that the Furies are ridiculously short duration for their build-up time. Where's the buff? (Once again, reply in the Anni thread please)

[zaxen069]

one question i was looking at dps rotation on the front page, why wouldn't you use force choke does high dmg 1 rage per second while channeled or is it immune to bosses on boss fights?

[Kaedis]

We're assuming that bosses will be immune to at least the stun effect of Force Choke, if not the entire ability.

[Sol]

Not to mention that it takes 2 GCD's v the others that only use 1. This was my same issue as Ravage. Due to the extra time, it would have to do at least twice the damage of other abilities, which it previously did not, or at the very least I was unsure of so I didn't include it in the rotation. Force Choke doesn't hit as hard as 2 Assaults, which generates 1 more rage and scales with weapon damage, which is generally much better at higher gear levels (Fury warrior is the prime example here).

The damage aside, having 1 extra rage will allow you to use your other heavier hitting abilities more often. Warriors not only have to content with managing damage per second abilities, but damage per global and damage per rage. All this combined with rage generating abilities makes us have to look at our rotation from a lot of different angles and sometimes the most obvious solution such as more dps = more damage, doesn't always provide the best long term outcome.

[Ezmode]

(11-23-2011 04:46 PM)Kore Wrote:  We're assuming that bosses will be immune to at least the stun effect of Force Choke, if not the entire ability.

Boss Immunity
Immune to Banish, Knockdown, Physics, Root, Sleep, Snare and Stun. NOT immune to Interrupts or Taunts. This is automatically given to all 3-player and 4-player bosses. You can give them the Boss Vulnerability ability if they specifically require vulnerability to one or more of these mechanics.

[zaxen069]

(11-23-2011 05:44 PM)Sol Wrote:  Not to mention that it takes 2 GCD's v the others that only use 1. This was my same issue as Ravage. Due to the extra time, it would have to do at least twice the damage of other abilities, which it previously did not, or at the very least I was unsure of so I didn't include it in the rotation. Force Choke doesn't hit as hard as 2 Assaults, which generates 1 more rage and scales with weapon damage, which is generally much better at higher gear levels (Fury warrior is the prime example here).

The damage aside, having 1 extra rage will allow you to use your other heavier hitting abilities more often. Warriors not only have to content with managing damage per second abilities, but damage per global and damage per rage. All this combined with rage generating abilities makes us have to look at our rotation from a lot of different angles and sometimes the most obvious solution such as more dps = more damage, doesn't always provide the best long term outcome.

ah i see thanks for the insight lol just wasn't sure b4 the reasoning behind it since the tooltip said high dmg but i don't know the base damage of any ablities yet but now it makes sense wasn't thinking about takes 3 seconds and in that time u can use 2 assaults

[Xorak]

Heres a post i made about sith warrior stats and breakdown on what you get for your points in that stat as well as a generic BiS list of gear. The gear list will be refined once the game is released.

http://empirebailbonds.enjin.com/forum/m...nformation