Warrior Was A Fail Class In WoW: Will Swtor Be The Same?

[guardian17]

I played a warrior for multiple years in WOW. I was a hardcore pvp'r and got the gladiator title 3 times. Warrior was the only class I enjoyed because I loved the feeling of being a highly mobile melee class which no other class could stand toe to toe with. While there were many great things about the warrior class, it was ultimately a fail class compared to most other classes and let me explain way.

1. Rage as a resource

Warrior was the first class designed in the game, therefore it has the most basic and archaic design principles behind it. The main drawback of rage as a resource is that you cant use the abilities you want right away, and have to build up in order to use them. Thus, it limits "timing" of abilities and timing is probably the single most important thing in a fight.

2. Nearly complete lack of range

Warrior is the only class in the game which had little to no ranged abilities. This made it extremely subsceptible to kiting.

3. Complete lack of self sufficiency

Warriors, and warrior mechanics, made it so that the class could easily become overpowered when paired with a healer or dispeller that could make up for the classes deficiencies. Blizzard balanced the class in pvp around the idea that the warrior would be paired with a class like this, thus making them extremely dependant on other people as a class. Thus, in things like duels, warriors were known to be a joke, unable to stand up against a rogue or mage and other classes in single combat. It was the only class which needed its hand held in order to do any pvp.

4. Clunky to play

Warrior were one of the only classes which required macros to be successful due to terrible class mechanics including stance switching, weapon and shield switching, etc... All these inconveniences were simple worked around by making macros, such as a macro that would switch to a shield and use shield reflect with 1 button or a macro which would change to the proper stance and use an ability with that stance with 1 button (defensive stance----> disarm) for example.

Will warrior/knights be the same in SWTOR? A rage dependant class that needs its hand held in order to survive in PVP? At first I didn't think so and here is why:

-Although warriors in SWTOR use rage, they have more ways of generating it then they did in WOW. Force Charge, Sabre Throw, Berserk, Basic Attack 1, Basic Attack 2, Force Choke, Ravage

-Warriors have powerful ranged abilities unlike in WoW. Force push, sabre throw, vicious throw, force pull, force charge, obliterate, force scream, force exhaustion.

-Warriors have more abilities to make them self sufficient and not reliant on a healer/dispeller. Snare breaks, CC breaks, more mobility, ranged attacks, better ways to generate rage, less clunkiness, and more utility.

-And finally, SWTOR isnt nearly as clunky to play. You dont have to stance swap in order to use abilities, you dont have to switch to a shield in order to use certain abilities. Everything is smooth

At first, it seems that the designers of SWTOR took the warrior of WOW, fixed everything that was wrong with it while adding their own touch, and created the knight/warrior of SWTOR. Everything was looking good until I read this review.

http://www.alterswtor.com/archives/953

So, what are your thoughts? I personally have faith in bioware, and by looking at the class mechanics alone I can say that warrior in SWTOR will be a significantly more fun and less frustrating class to play then it was in WOW.

[Piree]

First I wanted to say, the person that said SW was fail might be someone that in WoW maybe never got over 1600 rating in arena, or almost killed no bosses in wotlk. Like I said in another post, unless it's a reputable guild saying something like that, I wouldn't believe a thing, they maybe just fail in mastering their class.

As for the rest, I played a Priest when WoW came out and a Warrior in Wotlk. In wotlk there were obvious more addons/macro's being used then vanilla or tbc, but the thing I hated about Warrior most were the stances switching and deflecting with a damn shield like you said.
As a priest in vanilla I never used macro's and I was in the best guild of our server doing just great.
As a priest in TBC I had to use some macro's in arena, only played 2 seasons, got twice to 2300 rating, but always ended up <30 points from gladiator title. I used some macro's, but almist none, just some stopcasting ones.
As a warrior in Wolk, my whole actionbar was filled with macro's just to be able to play normally. If I didn't use any macro's back then, It would take like 10 seconds before I switch stance, press intercept, go back to previous stance, etc..
I also played a little bit on my priest, but didn't use that many macro as the warrior.

I aslo agree with the other points. Building up rage was sometimes really hard, no range damaging attacks, and warriors are so easy to kite.

In SWTOR i'm not going to play a SW as a main, but probably as an alt. So I hope they are better and less 'unnecessary' complicated.

[Sol]

I currently play an Arms warrior in WoW, however I do BG's and not arena's are I prefer my compbat a bit more random and not class combo orrientated. That's not to say that I don't respect Arenas or those that achieve high ratings, it simply isn't my cup of tea.

That said, I think the problem with warriors in wow is that they extremely powerful when combined with a healer or another class due to their large range of control mechanics and potential burst if they can stay on their target. Therefore to buff them further to make them viable for 1v1 situations will futher increase that gap in group scenarios. As far as clunky mechanics go, that was the warrior for you. You have an answer to almost every situation, however you need to ensure that you used them at the right time. This makes for very unforgiving play. Most other classes can make a mistake or 2 and still come out on top against a good warrior. I completely agree that this makes for unbalanced game play, as no one is perfect everytime and the moment I didn't have certain CD's up I was a sitting target.

I think that with the combination of more ranged attacks, knockdowns and stuns that swtor has will enable us to have a more DK style of play, where you have reliable abilities (both ranged and stuns) to fall back on while people are attempting to kite you, on top of force charge and obliterate to close, both which have relatively low CD's.

Rage building in this game is far better than WoW's model as you aren't relying on a white swings. This makes your income rage random as watching your swing timer in pvp can prove to be almost impossible (tht was the case for me). This system is much more like rift's action points system, which I feel is far superior than WoW's model. This allows us to reliably generate rage to ensure enough is pooled for burst situations, but will never allow us to run around rage capped (WoLK) and conitnually spam rage burners (looking at you heroic strike).

One thing that has bothered me is the new model of giving almost everyone self heals. To me this just doens't make sense. Healers heal, damagers damage. Having 1 oh shit! button I can see as necessary and also brings the element of surprise: you are having a very tight battle and nearly down your opponent and suddenly he regains 10% of his health. Something like this on a 1 min CD is enough to give a feeling fluidity in fights as it's not always a burn race, however you can't just roll from fight to fight either at full health. The Sith Assassin's Dark Charge looks to be awesome in PvP and if you spec into madness and get parasitism I'm seeing this class as being the best 1v1 due to this mechanic and most likely unbalanced.

Overall I really like where the swtor warrior classes are at the moment and I think that with the way rage generates, more ranged attacks & good mobility that we are defeintely going to be viable in pvp. My only reservation is that with other melee classes it's just gonig to be a burn race to see who can set up their burst faster. I would like to see this addressed without going overboard and incorporating recuperate style abilities that are completely imbalanced imo.

/edit I also don't think very much of that review either. He is gathering very broad generalisations about every class:

'In an effort to point out current imbalances, I decided to collect the general opinion of an “End Game” guild known for their effective use of 50s.'

I know several people that can effectively use thier toons for PvE but completely fail when it comes to PvP.

'Guardian – The Guardian is a melee DPS that wears clothy looking armor augmented with plates to put it in the heavy category. To pick up tank abilities, the DPS of this class suffers considerably thus making them unsatisfactory in PvP. Aside from push and aesthetics, little reason exists to go melee over a ranged tank. In PvE, this class can DPS fine as well as tank. However, few healers currently see any reason to have a melee dps over a ranged one.'

This is just complete nonsense. They just nerfed Juggernauts as they were extremely powerful in pvp. Force Choke is 1 min CD with a 3 sec channel, up from 30 sec CD and 6 sec channell. Why am I going to want to pick up tank talents and then expect to be a viable damager in game?! that is just completely imbalanced. If you're a tank in PvP you're going to be taunting, gaurding to ensure you're redirecting damage effectively and keeping everything else alive so they can do their job. Melee DPS will always be wanted for fights particularly when the ranged have to move a lot. I don't know what else to say to that.

'Sage- The sage is a ranged DPS that wears light clothy armor. This class has the most utility of any advanced class. With just a few talent selections this class can do good dps even as a healer. Unspec’d, they can heal well, spec’d they have the best heals in game due to their ability to regen resources through DPS. This class can and often does hybrid for durability and automatic self healing, thereby resulting in some very good survivability in long fights where kiting, LOS and CC forces the fight to go long. Generally considered to have the most exciting talent trees, this class has players excited each level when they allocate a talent point. Hands down, Sages represent the standard on how all other classes ought to feel when played.'

These guys just want to play god mode. DE already confirmed that the Consular is the most OP class in the game (MikeB's review on PvP) right now and it won't surprise me to see changes coming.

Honestly from the comments like this that have been made I really don't see anything written in this review as being viable and I'll be making my own assessments based off the current abilities and skill trees that are available. This review reminds me of some Q & A's from betacake...

[Masterkiller]

Unfortunately this topic doesn't contribute to the development of our class knowledge. Locking thread.