Carnage | Discipline Discussion

[dante2387]

on 2nd transition there's on damage going on while you're going down,as for ot gaining it while hitting powersources,i dunno,but i gain them normally,remember you only gain them if you used a rage spending ability(focus in jedi case) it works normally for me.

[Deet]

(01-09-2012 01:52 PM)dante2387 Wrote:  on 2nd transition there's on damage going on while you're going down,as for ot gaining it while hitting powersources,i dunno,but i gain them normally,remember you only gain them if you used a rage spending ability(focus in jedi case) it works normally for me.

Both myself and the other Sentinel in our groups have this issue. It doesn't matter what attack I use I do not gain stacks during the transition. In hard mode there is a small dot applied to you during the transitions so you are taking damage. What I was pointing out during the first transition is that you gain random stacks sometimes 2 or 3 at a time that doesn't really match up with damage taken.

[Alexious]

So, how come noone figured out a rotation for Carnage/Combat spec yet? We need a compendium of some sort.

[LagunaD]

A rotation is impossible due to unknown and randomly timed Rage gains.

If you read the thread, you will find discussions of ability priority.

[Rollins6020]

(01-12-2012 08:01 PM)Alexious Wrote:  So, how come noone figured out a rotation for Carnage/Combat spec yet? We need a compendium of some sort.

All I want is a rotation or priority.

Currently this is how I engage in combat. Don't have Massacre yet.

- Leap
- Battering Assault
- Gore
- Ravaging Strike (After Gore to take advantage of the 100% ArPen)
- FS (proc is usually up)
- Rupture
- Vicious Strike (if I have Rage)
- Assault (if everything else is down)

*Priority: Gore when I can couple it with a Ravaging Strike or when I'm going to use other melee abilities right after it (Vicious Slash/Assaults). I will hold off on a Force Scream for just a few seconds so I can get a 100% crit proc. If It doesn't come within 3 seconds or so, I do an un-proc'd FS. Not sure yet if it's best to use FS even with the no proc.

*Rupture is not crucial but if I have the Rage and everything else is down. I use it.
*Only Force Choke for the interrupt.

[Smog]

(01-13-2012 12:45 AM)Rollins6020 Wrote:  All I want is a rotation or priority.

The priority has been posted several times throughout the thread.

[Rollins6020]

People have posted what they think the priority is, but from what I've read and discussed, a concrete priority can't be generated until we have the ability to parse logs. All I've been told is "What I think...", "Well I know so-and-so likes to do..." "What I found works for me is..."

Is it a DPS loss or gain to Spam FS when it's off CD regardless if we have 100% crit chance or not?
If using FS off CD with no 100% crit chance is a DPS loss, how long should I wait for the buff before I use FS before I start to lose DPS?
Is using Rupture a DPS loss or gain? (I've heard conflicting theories backed by no data)
Is using Ravage a DPS loss or gain? (I've heard conflicting theories backed by no data)

These are questions that have been asked but do not have definitive answers because combat logs are unobtainable at this point. When we can parse concrete data we'll have a concrete priority.

As Sol has said...

Quote: Without a combat log or parser, there is no real way to confirm any numbers.

[bigbosss27]

(01-06-2012 06:37 PM)Bane Wrote:  I think the best combo for relics is the Matrix Cube (3x Green) + Rakata "X". X being whatever stat benefits you the most. This is mainly due to Rakata relics sharing a cooldown.

As for which stat benefits you the most. If you are stacking Power, and you use a +Power relic, you will see less overall increase in damage because of diminishing returns. However if you use a +crit +surge relic while stacking Power, then the benefits will be a lot greater because diminishing returns won't be as high. The same goes, if you're stacking Crit and Surge and use a +Power relic, you'll see a greater increase, than if you used a +Crit +Surge relic.

I started off following the general consensus of Accuracy (110%) > Power > Accuracy (above 110%), however my damage appeared to be overall pretty weak. Plus the amount of extra damage vs points of power spent is pretty low. I had 425 power before i saw a +100 damage increase. So I spent a lot of credits on crit + surge enhancements and swapped out all my gear, following a new stat priority of Accuracy (100%) > Surge > Power > Crit. I haven't noticed any missed attacks, after going below 110% (or 108.2% was the highest I got to), but I haven't started nightmare yet - so maybe as the difficulty goes up, the bosses gain resistances so you need more accuracy ??

I'm basing my assumptions on the 4th boss in EV - and previously I was 3rd out of the DPS to kill the target, after this change I was first by a good 12 seconds. Force scream crits for 3.8k and ataru procs are 670-780 crits. I'm not much of a hardcore theorycrafter, but even doing the dailies, and repeats of flashpoints, things are dying a lot quicker, and without a combat log, I don't know much in the way of solid evidence, and I'm too poor to keep switching out enhancements to get a better breakdown of damage per stat increase.

Srry for the noob question but i'm just trying to get an overall better understanding of how power and surge effect us. I was like this person above me and I was stacking power and acc all over my gear. I am currently using Mixtures of Columni and Tionese gear + some energized pieces as well. As you know from either having this gear or progressing past it, this gear contains a lot of Power and ACC already.

So, like the person above I only noticed marginal dps increases from the power and my ACC was around 108% as well. I then proceeded to switch my enhancements that contained large amounts of power and ACC for ones that contained Crit/Surge. In an attempt to lower my ACC and raise my surge rating I had succeeded in doing this. Before my surge rating was at around 55% but now its at 85%. Seeing this 30% increase I had hoped for a large jump in my Force Scream (+BloodFrenzy) Crit dmg, but it was a very small increase. Went from 3.1K(POWER Stacking) to 3.3K(Crit/Surge Stacking+Mixed Power). I am wondering because my Power dropped a bit from switching out all the enhancements, if that is the reason for the small increase instead of the large one the above poster is experiencing?

So in actuality am I actually lowering my dps cuz my base attacks are lower and should jump back on the POWER train? I currently also have around 30% crit and I'm usually just keeping what power i Get from new gear in the MODS containing STR and Power. Also, my ACC is 101%. Any insight into my problem would be very helpful. Thank you.

Wall of crit - Ezmode

[LagunaD]

(01-13-2012 04:40 AM)Rollins6020 Wrote:  Is it a DPS loss or gain to Spam FS when it's off CD regardless if we have 100% crit chance or not?
If using FS off CD with no 100% crit chance is a DPS loss, how long should I wait for the buff before I use FS before I start to lose DPS?

Massacre always gives you the auto-crit buff, so it is not really a matter of waiting, is it?

You should have a critical multiplier > 2 for FS, so unless you are waiting more than ~2 cooldowns (18 seconds) for the buff (which is inconceivable), it must be a DPS loss to use FS without it.

(01-13-2012 04:40 AM)Rollins6020 Wrote:  Is using Ravage a DPS loss or gain? (I've heard conflicting theories backed by no data)

I think this one is not that hard to work out.

Given that we now know that Ataru strikes scale every level (the tooltip is incorrect and shows the Level 20 damage), 2x Massacre is very, very close to Ravage (this is including accuracy and critical effects).

But Ravage costs no rage and makes a good filler when you might otherwise need to use Assault or Battering Assault. Given that its damage is essentially equal to our best spammable attack, by lowering the frequency at which you have to use low-damage rage builders, it has to be a DPS increase.

[Smog]

(01-13-2012 12:54 PM)LagunaD Wrote:  Massacre always gives you the auto-crit buff, so it is not really a matter of waiting, is it?

Exactly.

(01-13-2012 12:54 PM)LagunaD Wrote:  But Ravage costs no rage and makes a good filler when you might otherwise need to use Assault or Battering Assault. Given that its damage is essentially equal to our best spammable attack, by lowering the frequency at which you have to use low-damage rage builders, it has to be a DPS increase.

Again, this. If I have less than 5 rage and battering assault, gore, and FS are all on cd; I ravage. I never waste gore uptime on ravage.