Carnage | Discipline Discussion

[Joejr82]

This is the spec i came up with which will maximize dps in a flashpoint and raid.

SW-Carnage http://www.torhead.com/calculator/skill#...ddMorsZG.1

JK-Combat http://www.torhead.com/calculator/skill#...ddMorsZG.1

Thoughts and opinions?

[Rollins6020]

Engaging targets quickly is key to keeping up sustained dps. I've learned over the 10+ years of Melee DPS that being highly mobile is crucial. That being said I'd only change your build slightly.
http://www.torhead.com/calculator/skill#...ddMRMsZG.1

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Carnage:
I'd remove the 2 points in Erupting Fury - If you aren't the one to kill the mob in your group, you're wasting 2 points.

I'd remove the 2 points in Overwhelm - Immobilizing a target is more of a PvP advantage and doesn't help your DPS.

I'd put 2 points in to Enraged Charge - Charging groups allows you to apply damage and travel to your target faster to start DPSing them. You also gain more Rage with the talent.

I'd put 2 points in to Unbound - Breaking snares/roots will again allow you to travel to your targets faster to being DPSin.

Annihilation:
Would leave it the way you have it

Rage:
Would leave it the way you have it

[Monika TSarn]

(11-24-2011 05:09 PM)Freehugs Wrote:  Berserk's global cooldown reduction in Ataru form also gives a great damage burst, since you can Gore and then fit in 3 Massacre/Vicious Slashes and a Critical Force Scream before the Gore debuff ends.

3 massacre only ? Why not 5, since they just cost 1 rage, and just take 1 second each ! With all cooldowns up, couln't you so something like this:

Force Charge
Battering Assault
frenzy
berserk
gore
Massacre
Vicious Slash
Massacre
Vicious Slash
Massacre

[Pantelijus]

(12-02-2011 02:03 AM)Monika TSarn Wrote:  

(11-24-2011 05:09 PM)Freehugs Wrote:  Berserk's global cooldown reduction in Ataru form also gives a great damage burst, since you can Gore and then fit in 3 Massacre/Vicious Slashes and a Critical Force Scream before the Gore debuff ends.

3 massacre only ? Why not 5, since they just cost 1 rage, and just take 1 second each ! With all cooldowns up, couln't you so something like this:

Force Charge
Battering Assault
frenzy
berserk
gore
Massacre
Vicious Slash
Massacre
Vicious Slash
Massacre

Why would u use Vicious Slash once u have Massacre ?

Massacre replaces Vicious Slash in Carnage's rotation completely.

[Joejr82]

(12-02-2011 01:23 AM)Rollins6020 Wrote:  Engaging targets quickly is key to keeping up sustained dps. I've learned over the 10+ years of Melee DPS that being highly mobile is crucial. That being said I'd only change your build slightly.
http://www.torhead.com/calculator/skill#...ddMRMsZG.1

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Carnage:
I'd remove the 2 points in Erupting Fury - If you aren't the one to kill the mob in your group, you're wasting 2 points.

I'd remove the 2 points in Overwhelm - Immobilizing a target is more of a PvP advantage and doesn't help your DPS.

I'd put 2 points in to Enraged Charge - Charging groups allows you to apply damage and travel to your target faster to start DPSing them. You also gain more Rage with the talent.

I'd put 2 points in to Unbound - Breaking snares/roots will again allow you to travel to your targets faster to being DPSin.

Annihilation:
Would leave it the way you have it

Rage:
Would leave it the way you have it

Those 4 points are fillers I went the other route because 1 focus when we charge for 2 points isn't the greatest and 2 points to make a CD do what we have a CD for all ready seemed kinda pointless.

Mine was designed around solo, trash, and raid bosses killer. But would still be best in a raid setting.

[Rollins6020]

Force Charge talented builds 4 Rage. How much do we get when we kill something while talented for it?
Erupting Fury would only be good for solo use unless you are always getting the killing blow on trash in a Raid or on adds during a boss fight, otherwise their wasted points.

If I'm snared or rooted I need to make myself mobile to avoid possible incoming damage from a multitude of sources (AE, a mob is coming down on me, fire spawns under me).

I'm not sure which CD you're referring to when you say "make a CD do what we have a CD for already". I don't see any other Snare/Root breaking CDs.

Force Camo is a Feint + 30% Sprint. It doesn't drop you out of combat or break any movement impairments. If I can use it to get myself out of a root or snare that would allow me to avoid something from killing me or not allowing me to get back in to combat quickly, you best believe I'm taking it.

Same reason I have Imp. Sprint on my Rogue. Breaking snares/roots can be crucial to stay alive or finish a mob that's chasing your healer around because your tank is dead thus saving a wipe.

[Joejr82]

(12-02-2011 11:24 PM)Rollins6020 Wrote:  Force Charge talented builds 4 Rage. How much do we get when we kill something while talented for it?
Erupting Fury would only be good for solo use unless you are always getting the killing blow on trash in a Raid or on adds during a boss fight, otherwise their wasted points.

If I'm snared or rooted I need to make myself mobile to avoid possible incoming damage from a multitude of sources (AE, a mob is coming down on me, fire spawns under me).

I'm not sure which CD you're referring to when you say "make a CD do what we have a CD for already". I don't see any other Snare/Root breaking CDs.

Force Camo is a Feint + 30% Sprint. It doesn't drop you out of combat or break any movement impairments. If I can use it to get myself out of a root or snare that would allow me to avoid something from killing me or not allowing me to get back in to combat quickly, you best believe I'm taking it.

Same reason I have Imp. Sprint on my Rogue. Breaking snares/roots can be crucial to stay alive or finish a mob that's chasing your healer around because your tank is dead thus saving a wipe.

Untalented charge gives 3 rage which is enough rage to use Gore, Massacre, or Slam as soon as you charge in. Spending 2 talents to give 1 extra rage on a skill we can't use as part of our rotation unlike Annihilation spec can seemed rather moot compared to spending those 2 points elsewhere.

Unleash - Lvl 9 120sec cd Unleashes you from all incapacitating and movement-impairing effects.


Force camo does have a 45 sec cd I see now so I can get on the wagon with you on this talent.

Keeping Overwhelm will immobilize the target so when you are done channeling Ravage the target is still in melee range. In beta if I didn't have aggro on the target or it was going after a healer my toon would stand in the same location channeling Ravage while the target moved out of melee range.

So I'm thinking that http://www.torhead.com/calculator/skill#...ddMRrsZG.1 will be the best spec we can get.

[Rollins6020]

(12-03-2011 01:11 AM)Joejr82 Wrote:  Keeping Overwhelm will immobilize the target so when you are done channeling Ravage the target is still in melee range. In beta if I didn't have aggro on the target or it was going after a healer my toon would stand in the same location channeling Ravage while the target moved out of melee range.

So I'm thinking that http://www.torhead.com/calculator/skill#...ddMRrsZG.1 will be the best spec we can get.

I didn't play beta so I'm just theorycrafting here, so I do apologize.

Interesting point you make that while we Ravage we stay-put even if the target has moved. That's definitely something for me to consider.

I guess the extra rage from a Charge vs the extra rage from a killing blow is really up to the player. My perception is if I don't kill the mob, I'm not getting extra rage, therefor my 2 points in Erupting Fury are a waste. If I Charge the next group after my target is down (whether I killed it or not), I'm getting more rage from Enraged Charge. On the flip side, if I do not charge, I'm wasting the points I talented.

Either way you have a chance that the points you spent aren't yielding any results. I just know for me, I'll be Force Charging everything.

[Monika TSarn]

(12-02-2011 02:42 AM)Pantelijus Wrote:  Why would u use Vicious Slash once u have Massacre ?

Massacre replaces Vicious Slash in Carnage's rotation completely.

Are you sure ? I thought Vicous slash could would be slightly higher damage, depending on spec. Automatic ataru form hits would make up for that normally, but can they actually happen if you spam massacre every second with berserk active ? The ataru form description says it can only happen once every 1.5 seconds. If thats just for the random proc and not the automatic massacre hit, then just spamming massacre is better of course.

[Pantelijus]

(12-03-2011 02:20 AM)Monika TSarn Wrote:  

(12-02-2011 02:42 AM)Pantelijus Wrote:  Why would u use Vicious Slash once u have Massacre ?

Massacre replaces Vicious Slash in Carnage's rotation completely.

Are you sure ? I thought Vicous slash could would be slightly higher damage, depending on spec. Automatic ataru form hits would make up for that normally, but can they actually happen if you spam massacre every second with berserk active ? The ataru form description says it can only happen once every 1.5 seconds. If thats just for the random proc and not the automatic massacre hit, then just spamming massacre is better of course.

Massacre replacing Vicious Slash is same case as Tracer Missile replacing Power Shot for Mercenary BH (higher damage and bonus effect)

1.5 cd on Ataru Form proc was made before Berserk was implemented , people will prob point to this problem on beta forums so they can either change it to 1 cd or remove it completely