Carnage | Discipline Discussion

[stovepipe]

(02-10-2012 12:51 PM)LagunaD Wrote:  

(02-10-2012 04:39 AM)Tumri Wrote:  With the correct tooltips it's 2632 + 3 rage from Choke vs 2228(-10% is 2005) + 4 rage from Assault with an 88.1% chance to proc an Ataru Strikes worth 395 damage each. This averages out to 348 damage extra from Ataru per attack.

Choke: 2632 DMG + 3 Rage

Assault(with Massacre/Ataru active): 2701 + 4 Rage.

This is still a bit of an overestimate for Assault, though, because the hit chance of the off-hand attack (whose damage is included in the tooltip) is less than 90%.

It is also an overestimate since the Massacre buff won't be up 100% of the time (although I also assumed it was in my numbers).

Choke also has a ~7% higher critical chance than Assault (~+5.6% relative expected damage), although Ataru gets the same critical chance and 30% multiplier buff (~+8% or so on Ataru, or +2-3% on the combo). So there's another few percent advantage to Force Choke from criticals.

(02-10-2012 04:39 AM)Tumri Wrote:  One thing that's puzzling me is how you got 88.1% chance to proc an Ataru strike.

Ataru has a 20-50% chance to proc per successful melee attack. Assault is 3 main-hand swings and 1 off-hand swing. I used the appropriate accuracy values and best-case proc chance to calculate the probability of it proc'ing on an Assault.

If the Massacre buff is not up, the Ataru proc chance per Assault (3+1 swings) drops to about 50%.

(02-10-2012 04:39 AM)Tumri Wrote:  Another thing I'm not taking into account here is the incredible amount of unavoidable accuracy from Ataru Form and the 3% Accuracy talent(No alternative since Erupting Fury is terrible). This would push Assault's damage higher since it would have less than the 10% chance to miss I'm using here.

The accuracy buff from Ataru form was included in my calculation. You said you had 98% Accuracy for MH standard attacks, which is a reasonable, if less than optimal, value if the defender has 8% avoidance (then you are "Accuracy capped" for special attacks). We get 96% Accuracy for main-hand Assault swings (106% for MH special attacks) without any bonus from gear (3% from Ataru, and 3% from Narrowed Hatred). Since additional Accuracy from Accuracy Rating doesn't increase the expected damage of Force Scream, and only mildly increases the rate (but not damage per proc) of Ataru (which together are a significant fraction of our damage), it tends to be less effective at increasing overall DPS than other stats.

(02-10-2012 06:39 AM)Monaerch Wrote:  I believe it's because Assault and Battering Assault each perform 3 "attacks", while doing a lump sum of damage. So essentially 3 chances at causing the 50% proc. Or is it 4? Laguna's math is set up as though the main hand has 3 hits and the offhand has one, whereas I thought it was 2 mainhand 1 offhand. If it IS 2 main 1 off then its a 21.6% chance that ataru will be unsuccessful, so a 78.4% chance to proc. Also was that done assuming 0 accuracy from gear?

Assault is 3 MH swings and 1 OH.

I am pretty sure that the basic attack for any class is always 3 MH attacks for (very nearly) 1/3 of (Weapon + Bonus), plus an off-hand swing (with appropriate damage penalty and no bonus damage) if dual wielding. In any case, I checked the client files directly for Marauders.

The numbers I used assume +2% Accuracy from gear, which is the most you would ever want if boss avoidance is 8%.

I tend to agree.

So after looking at a spread sheet of yours in a previous post, I tried to simplify things and came up with the below build. I explain what rotation I use also. Am I doing it wrong, or am I on the right track? Mind you I'm more of a PVP person than PVE, but do both.

Sith Marauder/Carnage 2/35/4


Annihilation: 2 points

-2 in Enraged Slash


Carnage: 35 points

-Maxed all points in everything except, No Displacement and No Erupting Fury.

*I put 2 in Unbound because of the 100% to break free of CC when using Camouflage for PVP


Rage: 4 points

-2 in Ravager

-2 in Stagger


My rotation:

In Ataru Form:

[Macro 1] - Champion Relic / Cloak of Pain / Force Charge

[Macro 2] - Assault / Battering Assault / Massacre / Gore / Ravage / Force Scream

*when Berserk is up I'll use Gore if I can and then Berserk / Massacre (6 times)

*If Berserk is up and I have more than one person around me I use

[Macro 3] - Shii-Cho Form / Saber Ward / Berserk / Vicious Slash (spam, while in Shii-Cho Form and Berserking, it costs no rage and hits two targets)


Situational Moves that are on my bars:

- Crippling Slash
- Unleash
- Disruption
- Obfuscate
- BloodThrist
- Intimidating Roar
- Force Choke
- Predation
- Pommel Strike - Wish I could work this into my rotation. Doesn't seem to work much in PVP but I've seen 4,365 crits come from this baby.
- Vicious Throw
- Deadly Throw
- Smash
- Savage Kick
- Undying Rage
- Force Camouflage
- Disable Droid
- Heroic Moment

Your thoughts?