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Bane · 01-06-2012, 07:25 PM

Hmm - you're right. My bad. If that's the case then, the +Power relic would trump the crit/surge one because they do suffer from Diminishing returns. As for stacking Accuracy and Power, I'm still not convinced. The damage gain per point of power seems too low - can't get in game at the moment - but wasnt it like 1 power = 0.2 damage ?

**LagunaD** · 01-06-2012, 09:04 PM

(01-06-2012 07:25 PM)Bane Wrote: Hmm - you're right. My bad. If that's the case then, the +Power relic would trump the crit/surge one because they do suffer from Diminishing returns. As for stacking Accuracy and Power, I'm still not convinced. The damage gain per point of power seems too low - can't get in game at the moment - but wasnt it like 1 power = 0.2 damage ?

It is +0.23 Damage Bonus per point of Power (or +0.2415 with SW buff), however most relevant abilities have a power coefficient between 1.34 (Massacre) and 1.87 (Force Scream). So with the SW buff, +1 Power is adding 0.324 to Massacre and 0.452 to Force Scream. These bonuses are further increased by criticals.

To cap Accuracy requires a +4% bonus, or about 115 points of Accuracy Rating with DR. 115 Power would therefore add +37 to Massacre and +52 to Force Scream damage, again before criticals and other bonuses.

For Massacre, Accuracy is competitive with Power (assuming mobs have 10% melee avoidance), since 4% of Massacre's melee damage is comparable to +37. If all we did was melee attacks, Accuracy would be very good up to the cap, just as people intuitively expect.

But if what you are fighting has no force avoidance, Accuracy adds nothing at all to Force Scream (or Ataru strikes). That is the problem. +52 is better than +0% of anything...

My impression from playing a 50 Marauder in beta is that Force Scream + Ataru make up at least 1/3 of our damage.

We can also compare with Surge. +115 Surge Rating adds 18.5% to crit damage. With a 20% critical chance (with buff), this is +3.7% to all damage, and that's before we take into account that our biggest attack auto-crits. So even if Accuracy were a straight +4% to all damage (which it isn't), and even if we didn't auto-crit Force Scream (which we do), Surge would be roughly on par with Accuracy. Since Accuracy adds nothing to Force attacks, and Force Scream auto-crits, though, Surge comes out well ahead.

Rollins6020 · (This post was last modified: 01-07-2012 12:32 AM by Rollins6020.)

More than 1 mob:
Force Charge > Slam > Pommel a weak mob for insta-kill > Battering Assault > Gore > Ravage > Rupture > Force Scream > Force Choke > Vicious Slash (if have Rage) > Assault

1 mob:
Force Charge > Gore > Ravage > Battering Assault > Rupture > Force Scream > Force Choke > Vicious Slash (if have Rage) > Assault

Priority might be off but this is my usual chain of events when I engage. Seems incredibly bloated..

Am I doing things right?

I'm 32 right now. Let's say I'm a few levels higher and I have Massacre as well. What should my new chain of events be?

**Genu** · 01-07-2012, 02:05 AM

(01-06-2012 09:04 PM)LagunaD Wrote: It is +0.23 Damage Bonus per point of Power (or +0.2415 with SW buff), however most relevant abilities have a power coefficient between 1.34 (Massacre) and 1.87 (Force Scream). So with the SW buff, +1 Power is adding 0.324 to Massacre and 0.452 to Force Scream. These bonuses are further increased by criticals.

To cap Accuracy requires a +4% bonus, or about 115 points of Accuracy Rating with DR. 115 Power would therefore add +37 to Massacre and +52 to Force Scream damage, again before criticals and other bonuses.

Hello LagunaD,

may you please reveal your source of the concrete damage ability formula, i found nothing about the concrete values for marauder abilities in this forum or on the web (maybe i am searching for wrong terms since no native speaker), but i have found nothing but the formula for all abilities, without coefficient values.

I would contact you per pm, but this option seems not to be available. You may answer me per pm or post it here. with this information revealed i would be able to start on my compendium.

**LagunaD** · 01-07-2012, 03:39 AM

I don't know of any comprehensive tabulation in an easy-to-read format, but there is a utility called NodeViewer.exe that displays the relevant data directly from the client files.

Here is a post with the NodeViewer attached, and instructions to use it:

http://sithwarrior.com/forums/Thread-Dam...47#pid5147

The values you want are under the "abl" node, and their meaning is explained in several posts in the Game Mechanics sub-forum. It is a bit confusing at first, but after playing around a bit, the way it works is pretty easy to understand.

Bane · 01-07-2012, 10:55 AM

Cheers for that LagunaD.

Just want to make mention that the community is pretty awesome here. I am normally met with impatience and quick tempers when it comes to theorycrafting - but everyone here is pretty great.

Keep up the good work

Deet · 01-07-2012, 12:17 PM

(01-06-2012 09:04 PM)LagunaD Wrote:
(01-06-2012 07:25 PM)Bane Wrote: Hmm - you're right. My bad. If that's the case then, the +Power relic would trump the crit/surge one because they do suffer from Diminishing returns. As for stacking Accuracy and Power, I'm still not convinced. The damage gain per point of power seems too low - can't get in game at the moment - but wasnt it like 1 power = 0.2 damage ?

It is +0.23 Damage Bonus per point of Power (or +0.2415 with SW buff), however most relevant abilities have a power coefficient between 1.34 (Massacre) and 1.87 (Force Scream). So with the SW buff, +1 Power is adding 0.324 to Massacre and 0.452 to Force Scream. These bonuses are further increased by criticals.

To cap Accuracy requires a +4% bonus, or about 115 points of Accuracy Rating with DR. 115 Power would therefore add +37 to Massacre and +52 to Force Scream damage, again before criticals and other bonuses.

For Massacre, Accuracy is competitive with Power (assuming mobs have 10% melee avoidance), since 4% of Massacre's melee damage is comparable to +37. If all we did was melee attacks, Accuracy would be very good up to the cap, just as people intuitively expect.

But if what you are fighting has no force avoidance, Accuracy adds nothing at all to Force Scream (or Ataru strikes). That is the problem. +52 is better than +0% of anything...

My impression from playing a 50 Marauder in beta is that Force Scream + Ataru make up at least 1/3 of our damage.

We can also compare with Surge. +115 Surge Rating adds 18.5% to crit damage. With a 20% critical chance (with buff), this is +3.7% to all damage, and that's before we take into account that our biggest attack auto-crits. So even if Accuracy were a straight +4% to all damage (which it isn't), and even if we didn't auto-crit Force Scream (which we do), Surge would be roughly on par with Accuracy. Since Accuracy adds nothing to Force attacks, and Force Scream auto-crits, though, Surge comes out well ahead.

I just woke up a little while ago and my brain hasn't exactly turned on yet but to clarify are you saying that 100% ACC is all that's needed? base is 90% + 6% from talents, 4% from gear would be 100%.

What is confusing me is the assumption of melee defense on bosses which is bringing out the 110% comments. Where is that coming from? I haven't looked at the data from Nodeviewer, is there something in there that has the implication of 10% boss melee defense? Was this implied via another source?

Definitely going to try and go through it a little later.

**Freehugs** · 01-07-2012, 03:44 PM

(01-07-2012 12:17 PM)Deet Wrote: I just woke up a little while ago and my brain hasn't exactly turned on yet but to clarify are you saying that 100% ACC is all that's needed? base is 90% + 6% from talents, 4% from gear would be 100%.

What is confusing me is the assumption of melee defense on bosses which is bringing out the 110% comments. Where is that coming from? I haven't looked at the data from Nodeviewer, is there something in there that has the implication of 10% boss melee defense? Was this implied via another source?

Base accuracy for most attacks is 100%, it's only really Assault that has 90% accuracy.
110% comes from boss defense in the old XML data. Those values have since been removed so you can't check them with nodeviewer.
So 110% is probably not right, it's just the best info we had up until Deet did some testing and reported ~105.5% is about enough Accuracy. Personally I think I'll test it for myself.

Deet · 01-07-2012, 06:05 PM

I see, that clears up a lot of confusion. Thanks for taking the time to explain it for me! My testing is based on my own observation which I am first you tell you may not be 100% all the time. I welcome anyone to attempt to recreate my results with further testing of course, please post any confirmation or contradictions!

**Ezmode** · 01-07-2012, 06:23 PM

As soon as I can convince a healer to come with me I'll attempt testing the accuracy cap. Seeing that I am sitting at 14% right now it should be more than easy to shift the level around.