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**Kaedis** · 01-18-2012, 05:33 AM

Quote:According to the original post, "Willpower provides 0.2 to damage and 0.14 to healing per point. Force Power provides 0.15 to damage and 0.12 to healing per point." In addition to this, Willpower is increased by a percentage from buffs and talents. Would it not be better to stack willpower over power?

This is actually incorrect. Power grants 0.23 damage and 0.17 healing per point.

**CaseyTheRetard** · 01-18-2012, 06:07 AM

(01-18-2012 05:33 AM)Kor Wrote: This is actually incorrect. Power grants 0.23 damage and 0.17 healing per point.

Willpower also benefits from Mark of Power/Force Valor (5%) and talent points in Will of the Sith/Jedi (6%). They combine additively, so 1 raw Willpower ends up giving you 1 * (1 + 5% + 6%) = 1.11 effective Willpower buffed.

The healing power from Willpower and Power are both increased 5% by Unnatural/Force Might. So fully buffed, 1 point of raw [Force] Power grants .23 * 1.05 = .2415 bonus damage and .17 * 1.05 = .1785 bonus healing, whereas 1 raw Willpower grants .20 * 1.11 * 1.05 = .2331 damage and .14 * 1.11 * 1.05 = .1632 healing.

Put differently: 1 Willpower is equivalent to "some crit" plus .2331 / .2415 = 0.965 Power for damage or "some crit" plus .1632 / .1785 = 0.914 Power for healing. Quantifying "some crit" is dependent on your current crit rating and Willpower so no simple rule of thumb is possible.

Taggard · (This post was last modified: 01-18-2012 08:56 AM by Taggard.)

(01-18-2012 04:21 AM)Petrus Wrote:
(01-18-2012 04:05 AM)Taggard Wrote: Petrus, I am curious as to why you recommend stacking power after achieving a baseline for the other stats, when Willpower seems to be superior. According to the original post, "Willpower provides 0.2 to damage and 0.14 to healing per point. Force Power provides 0.15 to damage and 0.12 to healing per point." In addition to this, Willpower is increased by a percentage from buffs and talents. Would it not be better to stack willpower over power?

So two things - First off, WP is your primary stat, and yeah, you should mostly* focus on that one. That said though, WP isn't really taken into account as far as itemization goes. Better ilevel items always have more WP. That's why I didn't really include it in my list. The same can't be said for any of your secondary stats, and to gain power on an item, you'll lose something else.

*I say mostly, because while WP never hits DR and therefore will always give you more "bang for your buck", sometimes having less willpower, but gaining more surge/etc, is better. This is really going to depend on your thresholds. I personally have less WP than I could (about 150 less) because the 25ish extra healing power, and the extra crit rating, I get from it, just isn't worth the 25% surge rating I get instead.

Secondly - I'm pretty sure your numbers are wrong, and if you grabbed them off this thread then it needs to be updated. Power actually gives more damage/HP than WP does, but WP also increases other stats, which is why it's slightly better than power if you're just comparing one to the other.

Since everything is based off DR though, and we really do need to reach certain stat thresholds, I am going to say that WP isn't always your "best" choice, if you're talking about the overall playability of your character, although it will always result in the most points gained.

So to sum it up: Yes, WP is generally your primary stat, however I personally am rolling with about 1800 WP buffed instead of the 1950 I could have (fully buffed), because I've taken gear with less WP, but better itemization. Hopefully once more people on my server can make mastercraft mods, I'll be able to change that, but right now it's just SO much better for me to take an 80WP/50 surge item over a 100WP/50 alacrity item.

*edit*
I should also say, although I think it's assumed by most people, that all this above is mostly based upon my opinions, and feelings from playing the class. DR and stat interactions is just too complicated and nuanced and situational to be turned into hard data just yet. I've been playing healers for a long, long time, and I feel as though I've got this spot on, but I just want to clarify that most of this is based upon an equal mix of numbers from this site, and my intuition, rather than just the hard data that most people would prefer.

My mistake, I saw that the original post had been edited only a few days ago and assumed the information was correct and up to date. Others have pointed out that this it is not.

I agree with your itemization approach. I recently dropped a bunch of alacrity in favor of ~150 surge rating, and saw my critical heals shoot up from 4k to over 5k. The loss of alacrity was virtually unnoticeable, which is why I'm pretty disappointed at the stat allocation on our tier armor. I have also been using a handful of "Stalker" items (intended for assassins) over the sorcerer equivalents because they either have more willpower (only at the cost of endurance) or they have surge rating instead of alacrity. It's a bit irritating having to check if another class's item is actually better than your own.

**Kaedis** · 01-18-2012, 10:12 AM

Quote:Quantifying "some crit" is dependent on your current crit rating and Willpower so no simple rule of thumb is possible.

Small nitpick, it's only dependent on your current Willpower. Crit Rating and Willpower are on completely separate DR curves, they do not interact at all.

Otherwise spot on.

Bored · (This post was last modified: 01-19-2012 12:49 AM by Bored.)

Actually this is correct, the main problem is that 'Force Power' and 'Power' are two wholly different stats.

/edit urgh... quote failure, this was meant in response to post 231 by Kor.

**metaspy** · 01-19-2012, 01:37 AM

(01-18-2012 08:54 AM)Taggard Wrote: My mistake, I saw that the original post had been edited only a few days ago and assumed the information was correct and up to date. Others have pointed out that this it is not.

I agree with your itemization approach. I recently dropped a bunch of alacrity in favor of ~150 surge rating, and saw my critical heals shoot up from 4k to over 5k. The loss of alacrity was virtually unnoticeable, which is why I'm pretty disappointed at the stat allocation on our tier armor. I have also been using a handful of "Stalker" items (intended for assassins) over the sorcerer equivalents because they either have more willpower (only at the cost of endurance) or they have surge rating instead of alacrity. It's a bit irritating having to check if another class's item is actually better than your own.

Much of my info in the original post came from Beta.
I have been slow to level to 50.
If Kor or Petrus wants to take over the compendium (as they seem a lot more knowledgable) I am more than willing to give it up to them for the sake of it getting updated in a speedy fashion.

sorry

**CaseyTheRetard** · 01-19-2012, 02:18 AM

(01-18-2012 10:12 AM)Kor Wrote:
Quote:Quantifying "some crit" is dependent on your current crit rating and Willpower so no simple rule of thumb is possible.

Small nitpick, it's only dependent on your current Willpower. Crit Rating and Willpower are on completely separate DR curves, they do not interact at all.

The distinct DR curves mean that you need to know both values to establish an equivalence between gear ratings. If 1 more Willpower will give me 0.1% crit and 1 more crit rating 0.2% (numbers completely made up) then I can say 1 WillPower is equivalent to 0.97/0.91 Power (damage/healing) and 0.5 Crit Rating.

**hatterson** · 01-19-2012, 02:30 AM

(01-18-2012 02:04 AM)Petrus Wrote:
(01-18-2012 01:37 AM)dulfy Wrote: I also had to switch the enhancement or is it the mod from Columi onto the Rakata as it was poorly itemized

Mod I believe. Although for my Rakata pants I think I did both, so just the armoring is Rakata level now.

It's a shame to downgrade like that, but it's really the only way Rakata gear is even remotely viable currently.

I've actually found the enhancements and mods in PvP gear to be decent. Just rolling through the dailies gives you a decent shot at some gear.

The low level stuff gives level 51 mods/enhancements, which isn't great, but is better than what can be crafted. The next level of PVP gear offers level 56 enhancements/mods which is pretty solid so you can sometimes use those to replace poor itemization on tier gear without costing yourself a ton.

**Petrus** · 01-19-2012, 02:37 AM

(01-19-2012 02:30 AM)hatterson Wrote:
(01-18-2012 02:04 AM)Petrus Wrote:
(01-18-2012 01:37 AM)dulfy Wrote: I also had to switch the enhancement or is it the mod from Columi onto the Rakata as it was poorly itemized

Mod I believe. Although for my Rakata pants I think I did both, so just the armoring is Rakata level now.

It's a shame to downgrade like that, but it's really the only way Rakata gear is even remotely viable currently.

I've actually found the enhancements and mods in PvP gear to be decent. Just rolling through the dailies gives you a decent shot at some gear.

The low level stuff gives level 51 mods/enhancements, which isn't great, but is better than what can be crafted. The next level of PVP gear offers level 56 enhancements/mods which is pretty solid so you can sometimes use those to replace poor itemization on tier gear without costing yourself a ton.

Yeah, the pvp gear isn't bad, but there seems to be a bug ("feature"?) where the higher you go in valor, the less gear you get. I haven't looted a modable piece of gear from PvP in weeks. It makes it hard to be able to get gear to take the mods out of, but yeah, if you have extras, its a good thing to do.

The pvp gear generally has far better stats than the pve counterpart.

**Kaedis** · 01-19-2012, 10:15 AM

(01-19-2012 12:47 AM)Bored Wrote: Actually this is correct, the main problem is that 'Force Power' and 'Power' are two wholly different stats.

/edit urgh... quote failure, this was meant in response to post 231 by Kor.

Well, for Sorcerers, they are technically the same stat. The only real difference is the Force Power only applies to Force Bonus, while Power applies to Force, Tech, Melee, and Ranged. Power converts at the same rate as Force Power, though.

(01-19-2012 01:37 AM)metaspy Wrote: If Kor or Petrus wants to take over the compendium (as they seem a lot more knowledgable) I am more than willing to give it up to them for the sake of it getting updated in a speedy fashion.

sorry

Oh boy, I'm already handling the Madness Compendium, I seem to have inherited the Lightning Compendium (since Sujin is MIA), I'm involved in SimulationCraft-SWTOR, nearly all of the Sorc PvP threads, the majority of the Game Mechanics threads, the development of SithWarrior.com itself, and have 16 credit hours of upper-division mathematics course (yes, all 16) and a job that only pays about half of my bills. I'd love to take over this compendium, but I'm not really sure I even have the time for what I've got >.>

(01-19-2012 02:18 AM)CaseyTheRetard Wrote:
(01-18-2012 10:12 AM)Kor Wrote:
Quote:Quantifying "some crit" is dependent on your current crit rating and Willpower so no simple rule of thumb is possible.

Small nitpick, it's only dependent on your current Willpower. Crit Rating and Willpower are on completely separate DR curves, they do not interact at all.

The distinct DR curves mean that you need to know both values to establish an equivalence between gear ratings. If 1 more Willpower will give me 0.1% crit and 1 more crit rating 0.2% (numbers completely made up) then I can say 1 WillPower is equivalent to 0.97/0.91 Power (damage/healing) and 0.5 Crit Rating.

Ah, yes, if you're referring to converting it to Crit Rating, you would need to know both. I inferred that you meant calculating the increase in Crit Chance would require knowledge of both, which is false. My mistake.