Immortal|Guardian PvE End Game Tanking Compendium - 1.2

[Omadon]

(06-06-2012 09:56 PM)Sturrm Wrote:  

(06-06-2012 02:18 PM)Omadon Wrote:  

(06-06-2012 06:45 AM)jamaal Wrote:  

(05-31-2012 02:15 PM)Omadon Wrote:  Long quote by me. *snip*

Toth and Zorn. You will kill yourself if you Force scream and put a DOT on then get Fearful.

Thank you for the advice. I know the Fearful debuff reflects damage; but the DOT from Force Scream really isn't anything to write home about. It might crit for 65 damage on a single tick. I haven't seen it reflect enough damage on me to worry about it. And I usually try and cast FS right before they jump to proc the shield. Then it's Enraged Defense, Taunt, Saber Throw and Force Charge to get back into it.

Here's a cleaned up version of those logs on torparse. Wish I had found this before that first post. Oh well c'est la vie.

T&Z HM Logs Hybrid Jug

I'd love to see a full Immortal Jug's log for the same encounter. At the time I had 2 pieces of BH gear, rest full Rakata.

Listen to his help and read up on how fearful works. Fearful does not reflect damage, it hits you for a set amount. When discussing Lethality/Dirty Fighting snipers/gunslingers in this fight, the guys in that section of the forums verified this.

Quote:Zorn's fearful debuff is not a damage reflection. Every time you hit him you will take 6k damage. A tick for 330 damage will deal 6k to you. One auto attack will do 6k to you.
This is why they're bad for that fight.

Im sure you can do this fight without using Force Scream... but you might want to go back to full Immortal, since that spec does not have the DOT.

You guys are absolutely right. I went back through that log and found an instance where I activated Force Scream after getting Fearful. It works exactly as you've outlined. Thanks.

I am more aware of this now and I stop using Force Scream about 5% before they jump. It works pretty well and I don't think a respec is necessary.

1.3 will be very interesting!

[Caeden]

Seems 1.3 is tomorrow. Sometime this weekend I'll try to do an update of this post to that level.

[zaios]

1.3 Augments

While i know this has been talked about before, and most ppl have come to the conclusion that with the introduction of the augment slots, that the best way to fill them is to top up your Shield and Absorb levels to 50%, and then start pushing your Defence to 30% rather then additional Stam.

Ive been doing some thinking about the pros and cons of stacking Stam vs Def and this is what ive come up with, im hoping to spark some convo to get some more ideas in which way we should be gearing.

(For reference, my stats fully buffed atm are 24.3k health, 20% Def, 50% Shield and Absorb, so all my augments will be either Stam or Def at this point.)

Stacking Defence Pros:
Increased chance to avoid all DMG from melee/ranged attacks.
Can provide less stress to healers and their resources.
Increases overall dmg Avoidance.

Stacking Defence Cons:
Spiker incoming dmg.
Defence only works with certain types of dmg/attacks (ie worthless against internal, elemental, etc based attacks).
Due to the DR curve, you wont get a huge % increase for the rating.

Stacking Stam Pros:
No DR curve to the stat.
Helps against all dmg sources.
Since there is no crit immunity in game, it helps soak any crit hit we may take.
More margin for error in soaking dmg if/when something goes wrong.

Stacking Stam Cons:
Does not help in overall Avoidance.
Can add a little more strain to healing resources to keep you topped up.

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Again, these are purely my thoughts, and im hoping this will spark a discussion to throw around ideas. ATM personally im looking at gaining ~5% Defence, or ~2k max health.HM Kephess is the only fight that holds any worry when taking DMG, Healers can only pump out X amount of sustained HPS in current gear levels, so being able to avoid his dmg entirely seems more useful to bumping up the amount of dmg i can take? (nightmare mode may change this thinking)

Also keeping in mind EC NiM comes with the next Tier or "level" of gear, going up to item level 63 mods, etc, giving us even more stats in order to help hit stat "caps" since we are getting close in EC HM level gearing.

[zaios]

A secondary thought about this is, has anyone looked at using the revised 1.3 War Hero PvP trinkets over the on use shield/absorb/defence and/or absorb proc relics?

Currently sitting at 50%+ on both shield and absorb and 20% Defence, so using the on use shield/absorb relic doesnt give a huge return anymore vs when at lower gear levels, same for the proc. the on use Defence is still ok since im still 10% off the cap there.

But the 2 Tank PvP relics now come with a flat 113 Shield or Defence rating
http://dulfy.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/relic21.jpg
http://dulfy.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/relic4.jpg

So i was wondering if we were to run with both of those or even just using 2 Defence WH Relics (226 Defence from 2 slots), and tweak gear to drop shield rating and pump it back into Defence to push towards the 30% cap along with the augment slots?

[uytgsyg]

The goal of this compendium is to provide a knowledge center for the beginner and advanced Sith Juggernaut/Jedi Guardian PVE tank. This compendium will cover mechanics specific to the two mirror Advanced Classes and hopefully present the community’s best answer or, at worst, best guess to how to appropriately spec a PVE tank and the to how to approach end game PVE content.

[Crionos]

When I look at the chart on the op's post regarding EDR I get confused as to how far we need to take our defense ratings in order to max out our avoidance. I have read and re-read LagunaD's thread and used the spreadsheet.

My confusion comes from the EDR chart. Can you clarify what the Y and X columns represent for in game values. If I am not mistaken it appears that we don't see DR until 900+ defense rating.

Is this correct?

[blackfrost]

Just a quick question really fast for the Jugg tanks. Our main tank in our guild is a Jugg and we was running LI last night. Anyways...on the first boss myself and a sniper was peeling aggro off the tank like it was nothing. Before the patch he would tank Zorn and Toth and we couldn't pull off him to save our lives, so just wondering is anyone else having a problem with threat? According to him they was supposedly increased it. Thanks for any help in this matter.

[Caeden]

(06-28-2012 02:39 AM)Crionos Wrote:  When I look at the chart on the op's post regarding EDR I get confused as to how far we need to take our defense ratings in order to max out our avoidance. I have read and re-read LagunaD's thread and used the spreadsheet.

My confusion comes from the EDR chart. Can you clarify what the Y and X columns represent for in game values. If I am not mistaken it appears that we don't see DR until 900+ defense rating.

Is this correct?

DR occurs at all ratings and is the basis of the curve that gives the effectiveness of the rating. The EDR is the effective damage reduction, basically it says that defense rating tends to give us larger gains until nearly 900 rating in damage reduction.

Of course, this ignores fight to fight variation and the notion of mana sponge vs. smoother tank to heal (classic avoidance vs. mitigation argument).

Does that help?

[Sturrm]

(06-28-2012 10:06 PM)blackfrost Wrote:  Just a quick question really fast for the Jugg tanks. Our main tank in our guild is a Jugg and we was running LI last night. Anyways...on the first boss myself and a sniper was peeling aggro off the tank like it was nothing. Before the patch he would tank Zorn and Toth and we couldn't pull off him to save our lives, so just wondering is anyone else having a problem with threat? According to him they was supposedly increased it. Thanks for any help in this matter.

Didnt have problems before 1.3, definitely dont have problems now that its live. Make sure he respecced, since the points were reset.

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(06-26-2012 02:08 PM)zaios Wrote:  So i was wondering if we were to run with both of those or even just using 2 Defence WH Relics (226 Defence from 2 slots), and tweak gear to drop shield rating and pump it back into Defence to push towards the 30% cap along with the augment slots?

Without the relics, im at 25% defense, 50% shield, 50% absorption. With the two war hero relics, I am at 30% defense, 50% shield, 50% absorption, and 25k health (buffed).

I am fully augmented and have all campaign/blackhole, except for the hilt on my mainhand.

Someone would have to do the math, to see if its worth losing the +400 absorption every 14 seconds from the Campaign Relic. I would say, it all depends on the fight, but a good tank would have these in his bags for sure.

[zaios]

(06-29-2012 06:19 PM)Sturrm Wrote:  Someone would have to do the math, to see if its worth losing the +400 absorption every 14 seconds from the Campaign Relic. I would say, it all depends on the fight, but a good tank would have these in his bags for sure.

At 50% Absorb, the proc is worth just under 12% Absorb putting you around 62% during the proc.

As to which is more useful, a static Defence upgrade of ~2% vs a proc that might be on CD due to a small attack that procs it and you dont have it up for when a larger hit is incoming.

12% proc x (6/20) = 3.6%
3.6% Absorb x 50% proc chance on hit = ~1.8%

If my math is correct, the proc is worth about ~1.8% (please someone check, im probably waaay off in my thinking here)