[Patch 1.0-1.1 ARCHIVE] Mercenary | Commando DPS Compendium

[Tato23]

(12-25-2011 10:56 AM)Bloodskila Wrote:  

(12-24-2011 12:06 PM)Tato23 Wrote:  Thank you so much for the reply, yes i know the priority system, but for opening do you guys usually open up with full auto then into grav round, and that just starts the priority system? I wish there was a DPS meter

Yes, start with Full Auto and then go into Grav Round.

When you have 5 Grav vortexes, use Demo Round.

When you have 5 Charged Barrel Stacks, use High Impact Bolt.

Use Full Auto whenever Curtain of Fire procs.

Use Hammer Shot appropriately to manage resources.

Frontload before you backload.

Etc.

Thanks! Major help!! Is there a certain Ammo amount i should strive to stay above? Or heat level i should try to stay below at all costs? Even if it means sacrificing some of those procs? If im at half ammo, and i get all those procs up should i save and build up some ammo or reduce some heat right?

[danoobsminion]

(12-24-2011 06:50 PM)Chamillion Wrote:  Has anyone noticed that tracer lock is not giving the rail shot bonus damage while talented? It hasn't increased my damage or the other BH merc's in my guild since the game launched. If this was mentioned previously here, my apologies. I'd be interested to have some other people check this.

Without a combat log, it is pretty impossible to tell. I sometimes feel like it isn't added, but have no real way to tell unfortunately.


Forever without hard data

[OniPew]

Target lock works fine for me. You see it on your buffs. Its a red picture. Also the damage buff works fine for me.

[danoobsminion]

(12-26-2011 05:37 AM)OniPew Wrote:  Target lock works fine for me. You see it on your buffs. Its a red picture. Also the damage buff works fine for me.

Buff showing up =/= Damage increase received

Speculation doesn't do anything, hard data is all that matters.

edit: I'm not saying it doesn't work, just impossible to tell.

[OniPew]

(12-26-2011 07:56 AM)danoobsminion Wrote:  

(12-26-2011 05:37 AM)OniPew Wrote:  Target lock works fine for me. You see it on your buffs. Its a red picture. Also the damage buff works fine for me.

Buff showing up =/= Damage increase received

Speculation doesn't do anything, hard data is all that matters.

edit: I'm not saying it doesn't work, just impossible to tell.

Well yeah, it always hits for more when I have the buffs up, obv I don't take notes of the damage it deals when it hits or crits so I dont have direct proof, but it seems to increase the damage for me.

[danoobsminion]

Also hard to really calculate because of mob armor values and such. No target dummy for a control variable.

[Bloodskila]

(12-25-2011 12:15 PM)Tato23 Wrote:  Thanks! Major help!! Is there a certain Ammo amount i should strive to stay above? Or heat level i should try to stay below at all costs? Even if it means sacrificing some of those procs? If im at half ammo, and i get all those procs up should i save and build up some ammo or reduce some heat right?

You want to stay at the four arrows (max regen) though depending on what you do, you can vary it up and go below, as long as you have Recharge Cells to recuperate from overcompensating.

[Poksu]

I'm not really sure it's worth it to kick off with Unload/Full Auto :g I'd rate getting 5x Heat Signatures more important.
I've been starting with 2x Tracer and then Unload, with a possible Barrage proc, which leaves me with barely noticable heat, depending on crits (I have Biochem so I always fire up my crit Adrenal and crit Relic at pull [my 2 cents they will nerf simultaenous Adrenal + Relic soon]). If you start with Unload, you're bound to end up with 0 heat, which means you are actually wasting resources. Not to mention your initial Unload with no buffs/debuffs is very minimal dmg. The absolute optimal is that you are never at 0 heat, since you aren't really regening at that point.

[Xyrm]

(12-27-2011 11:35 PM)Poksu Wrote:  I'm not really sure it's worth it to kick off with Unload/Full Auto :g I'd rate getting 5x Heat Signatures more important.
I've been starting with 2x Tracer and then Unload, with a possible Barrage proc, which leaves me with barely noticable heat, depending on crits (I have Biochem so I always fire up my crit Adrenal and crit Relic at pull [my 2 cents they will nerf simultaenous Adrenal + Relic soon]).

While it may not "feel" right, it's the best way to go. We are heat limited, so if you begin with unload you are starting your heat regen right away (frontloading it, rather than wasting a cast of tracert missile) AND getting a completely free ability. Plus, in a raiding scenario a Juggernaut tank can apply the armor debuff VERY quickly (and you'll probably need to give them a second or two for threat), so that's not a real concern. Basically all you lose is the Barrage

Barrage
Bounty Hunter (Mercenary)

Activation time: Instant

Power Shot and Tracer Missile have a [10/20/30]% chance to finish the cooldown on Unload and increase the damage dealt by the next Unload by 25%. This effect cannot occur more than once every 6 seconds.

buff of +25% damage. While this is significant, you basically get a FREE ability, which as a heat-constrained class is the best thing possible.

Unload is extremely efficient in terms of DPSPH; Tracer Missile, by comparison, is not. In a raiding scenario, Tracer Missile's buffs apply to Heatseeker and Rail Shot, not unload (excluding Barrage).

(12-27-2011 11:35 PM)Poksu Wrote:  If you start with Unload, you're bound to end up with 0 heat, which means you are actually wasting resources. Not to mention your initial Unload with no buffs/debuffs is very minimal dmg. The absolute optimal is that you are never at 0 heat, since you aren't really regening at that point.

This concept doesn't really apply to the start of a fight. By beginning with unload, you are essentially "delaying" your real rotation by 3 seconds, while getting free damage in. And no matter what, Unload is never minimal damage, even without Barrage each tick of unload hits for a very sizable amount. Additionally, because the unload is weaker, it allows you to attack right away; whereas if you open with a Tracer Missile and it crits, you force the tank to taunt early.

The important thing to remember is that the situation while solo or in a FP with inexperienced players is NOT a raiding scenario, which is where theory really applies because fights last long enough to require planning and a rotation. Because MANY other classes bring a -% armor debuff to the table, and can apply them VERY quickly (especially Juggernauts), you have to ignore that aspect that tracer missile normally provides to you when considering unload. While YOU might see unload doing almost 50% more damage with TM fully stacked solo, in raids that difference will probably be exactly 25%, which is much less noticeable.

EDIT: Finally, one more thing to consider with Tracer Missile. If you do what you described, of starting with 2x tracer then unload if Barrage procs, you are gambling. If neither of the Tracer Missiles crit, you actually hit 40 heat. This puts you in a terrible position because you still have to apply another Tracer AND do a Heatseeker Missile ASAP (another 32 heat burst, which only allows 7.5 heat to regen before), so you are going to sit there spamming RS to stay below heat.

On the other hand, look at what you COULD have (ignoring crits):

0s: Unload (16 heat)
3.0: Start First TM (1 heat)
4.5: First TM (16 heat)
6.0: Second TM (24.5 heat)
7.5: Third TM (33 heat... safely fully stacked)
7.5: Rapid Shots (to bleed heat if you didn't crit all 3 times)
9.0: Rapid Shots (25.5 heat, still need to be below 24 to HS)
10.5: Heatseeker (34 heat)

Versus what you said.

0: Start First TM (0 heat)
1.5: First TM (16 heat)
3.0: Second TM (24.5 heat)
3.0: Unload (40.5 heat - over breakpoint, 1 heat lost due to regen breakpoint)
6.0: Rapid Shots (25.5 heat)
7.5: Start 3rd TM (18 heat)
9.0: Finish 3rd TM (26.5 heat)
9.0: Rapid Shots (to bleed heat, if you HS here, you pass breakpoint again)
10.5: HS (35 heat)

UPDATE: Math was off, slightly revised numbers above and text below.

You mentioned wasting heat. Your method actually wastes more heat than mine does because you waste 7.5 heat while casting your first TM, while my method wastes 6.5 (because you start the TM cast with 1 heat). And you can see, the end difference is one heat, and you had a chance for a more powerful unload, but what's important is to consider the position we are now in. Since my last Unload, I've done 3 Tracer Missiles, while you only did one. Which means in the next few seconds, I'm more likely primed for a Barrage Unload. Now of course, this is a crude example because it doesn't factor in crits. But ultimately, you chose to "delay" your start of the fight by 3 seconds to make slightly more efficient use of the cast time of your first Tracer Missile (to dissipate one heat instead of zero). It is NEVER right to always place unload at a specific position number; once your first Tracer Missile goes off, you should ONLY use Unload when Barrage has procced.

Furthermore, keep in mind that three back to back, non-crit Tracer Missiles puts you at +32 heat after 4.5 seconds, which is below the breakpoint. As such, if you start doing them with 8 heat or less, you're golden. Why do I suggest clumping TMs? Because it's hard to compensate for Terminal Velocity

Terminal Velocity
Bounty Hunter (Mercenary)

Activation time: Instant

While High Velocity Gas Cylinder is active, critical hits with missiles and Unload have a [50/100]% chance to vent 8 heat. This effect cannot occur more than once every 3 seconds.

otherwise. You don't get the heat back from TM until the missile animation actually connects, which depending on your distance really can be 1-1.5 seconds. By grouping TM 2-3 at a time, and chosing to start the group at lower heat, it makes it easier to compensate (at least, IMO) because you've already seen the results for the first missile or two and can chose to react to those, knowing that if you planned correctly, your third TM can only net you 8.5 more heat worst-case.

And while we are on the matter of heat management, one last note. Since unload has 3x chances to proc Terminal Velocity, and even without a crit only nets 1 heat after 3 seconds, it is extremely important that you do NOT use a Barrage proc while low on heat (7 or less) or you are extremely likely to empty your heat completely and waste regen. This is another reason I say to never pick Unload at a fixed rotation spot, because if you chose it to always be after two TMs, and both TMs crit, you heat empty.

Sorry for the wall of text, I was kind of thinking it through myself while writing.

[Poksu]

(12-28-2011 01:15 AM)Xyrm Wrote:  And you can see, the end difference is one heat, and you had a chance for a more powerful unload, but what's important is to consider the position we are now in. Since my last Unload, I've done 3 Tracer Missiles, while you only did one. Which means in the next few seconds, I'm more likely primed for a Barrage Unload.

how have I only done 1 tracer if i kick off with 2 before my first unload? and as you kinda noted, you just cant ignore crits in your napkin math.
with your examples, were doing the same amount of abilities, while i have the possibility of a Barrage proc. what your math doesnt show, is the chance for me to vent much more heat while unloading. unload can truly be heat venting ability, not "just a free cast". 3x crits which all vent 8 heat = 16 - 3 x 8 = -8. so if you start with unload, you are possibly wasting 10 or so heat, with the normal regen happening at the same time. with your uncritted examples I'd go over the safe treshold, but in the real world some of those hits would be crits, and i wouldnt go over. sure it's a gamble, but doing the math with no crits is just silly.

the absolutely only reason to start with unload is threat. so far I havent had any trouble with random pug tanks, with me starting off with trinketed tracers. I've almost forgot I have flares.