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+--- Thread: Sorcerer|Sage DPS Compendium (/thread-947.html)
RE: Sorcerer|Sage DPS Compendium - Kaedis - 06-23-2012 10:42 PM
When we put together a BIS list for pre-1.2 a while back, the balance point for hybrid at the time was around 330 Surge to 220 Alacrity. I find it surprising that it's pushing you toward Alacrity so much. Would you mind posting the SimC profile you're using? Please enclose it in [code] tags when you do.
RE: Sorcerer|Sage DPS Compendium - nish - 06-24-2012 12:13 AM
Here's TK spec:
Code:
#!./simc
jedi_sage="Jedi_Sage_Telekinetics"
origin="create_Jedi_Sage.simc"
level=50
race=human
position=ranged_front
role=spell
use_pre_potion=0
professions=artifice
talents=http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#600hZfsrodoMutzZcM0M.1
actions=stim,type=exotech_resolve
actions+=/force_valor
actions+=/snapshot_stats
actions+=/power_potion
actions+=/use_relics
actions+=/weaken_mind,if=!ticking
actions+=/turbulence,if=dot.weaken_mind.remains>cast_time
actions+=/force_potency,if=buff.psychic_projection.react|buff.tidal_force.react
actions+=/telekinetic_throw,if=buff.psychic_projection.react
actions+=/telekinetic_wave,if=buff.tidal_force.react
actions+=/mental_alacrity,moving=0
actions+=/mind_crush
actions+=/sequence,name=pewpew:disturbance:telekinetic_throw
actions+=/restart_sequence,name=pewpew
actions+=/project,moving=1
head=war_hero_stalkers_headgear,ilevel=61,quality=custom,stats=475armor_120endurance_139willpower_82power_57surge
ear=rakata_force_masters_relay,ilevel=58,quality=artifact,stats=85endurance_103willpower_44crit_51alacrity
shirt=datacrons,stats=10strength_10aim_10cunning_40willpower_40endurance_40presence
chest=battlemaster_stalkers_robe,ilevel=58,quality=custom,stats=475armor_120endurance_139willpower_82crit_57alacrity
waist=rakata_stalkers_waistwrap,ilevel=58,quality=artifact,stats=285armor_83endurance_121willpower_11crit
legs=battlemaster_stalkers_legwraps,ilevel=58,quality=custom,stats=475armor_120endurance_139willpower_82crit_57alacrity
feet=war_hero_stalkers_boots,ilevel=61,quality=custom,stats=297armor_120endurance_139willpower_82power_57surge
wrists=rakata_stalkers_bracers,ilevel=58,quality=artifact,stats=285armor_86endurance_103willpower_37power
hands=battlemaster_force_masters_gloves,ilevel=58,quality=custom,stats=285armor_117endurance_140willpower_48power_51alacrity
implant1=black_hole_force_lords_mk_1_system,ilevel=61,quality=artifact,stats=87endurance_102willpower_71power_57alacrity
implant2=black_hole_force_lords_mk_1_system,ilevel=61,quality=artifact,stats=87endurance_102willpower_71power_57alacrity
relic1=matrix_cube_m7_r3,ilevel=50,quality=prototype,stats=50endurance_58willpower_24crit
relic2=plasma_burst_device,ilevel=58,quality=artifact,stats=77endurance,equip=ondamage_168elemental_30%_4.5cd
main_hand=custom_built_lightsaber,ilevel=20,quality=custom,stats=108endurance_127willpower_78power_612forcepower_34crit_48surge,weapon=lightsaber_306min_459max
off_hand=black_hole_strikers_mk_1_generator,ilevel=61,quality=artifact,stats=87endurance_102willpower_102power_649forcepower_57surge
# Gear Summary
# gear_strength=10
# gear_aim=10
# gear_cunning=10
# gear_willpower=1554
# gear_endurance=1387
# gear_presence=40
# gear_crit_rating=277
# gear_alacrity_rating=330
# gear_armor=2577
# gear_power=571
# gear_forcepower=1261
# gear_surge_rating=219
# Set Bonuses
# main_hand=custom_built_lightsaber,weapon=lightsaber_306min_459maxI'm waiting for 1.3 and extraction prices to come down before using the mods in my extra pieces and the 100 or so black hole comms to fit my gear best.
Here's Hybrid:
Code:
#!./simc
jedi_sage="Jedi_Sage_Hybrid"
origin="create_Jedi_Sage.simc"
level=50
race=human
position=ranged_front
role=spell
use_pre_potion=0
professions=artifice
talents=http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#600oZfcM0bZfMfRs0krc.1
actions=stim,type=exotech_resolve
actions+=/force_valor
actions+=/snapshot_stats
actions+=/telekinetic_throw,if=buff.psychic_projection_dd.up
actions+=/power_potion
actions+=/force_potency
actions+=/use_relics
actions+=/weaken_mind,if=!ticking
actions+=/force_in_balance,if=force>80
actions+=/mind_crush,if=buff.presence_of_mind.react
actions+=/telekinetic_throw
actions+=/project,moving=1,if=force>120
head=war_hero_stalkers_headgear,ilevel=61,quality=custom,stats=475armor_120endurance_139willpower_82power_57surge
ear=rakata_force_masters_relay,ilevel=58,quality=artifact,stats=85endurance_103willpower_44crit_51alacrity
shirt=datacrons,stats=10strength_10aim_10cunning_40willpower_40endurance_40presence
chest=battlemaster_stalkers_robe,ilevel=58,quality=custom,stats=475armor_120endurance_139willpower_82crit_57alacrity
waist=rakata_stalkers_waistwrap,ilevel=58,quality=artifact,stats=285armor_83endurance_121willpower_11crit
legs=battlemaster_stalkers_legwraps,ilevel=58,quality=custom,stats=475armor_120endurance_139willpower_82crit_57alacrity
feet=war_hero_stalkers_boots,ilevel=61,quality=custom,stats=297armor_120endurance_139willpower_82power_57surge
wrists=rakata_stalkers_bracers,ilevel=58,quality=artifact,stats=285armor_86endurance_103willpower_37power
hands=battlemaster_force_masters_gloves,ilevel=58,quality=custom,stats=285armor_117endurance_140willpower_48power_51alacrity
implant1=black_hole_force_lords_mk_1_system,ilevel=61,quality=artifact,stats=87endurance_102willpower_71power_57alacrity
implant2=black_hole_force_lords_mk_1_system,ilevel=61,quality=artifact,stats=87endurance_102willpower_71power_57alacrity
relic1=matrix_cube_m7_r3,ilevel=50,quality=prototype,stats=50endurance_58willpower_24crit
relic2=plasma_burst_device,ilevel=58,quality=artifact,stats=77endurance,equip=ondamage_168elemental_30%_4.5cd
main_hand=custom_built_lightsaber,ilevel=20,quality=custom,stats=108endurance_127willpower_78power_612forcepower_34crit_48surge,weapon=lightsaber_306min_459max
off_hand=black_hole_strikers_mk_1_generator,ilevel=61,quality=artifact,stats=87endurance_102willpower_102power_649forcepower_57surge
# Gear Summary
# gear_strength=10
# gear_aim=10
# gear_cunning=10
# gear_willpower=1554
# gear_endurance=1387
# gear_presence=40
# gear_crit_rating=277
# gear_alacrity_rating=330
# gear_armor=2577
# gear_power=571
# gear_forcepower=1261
# gear_surge_rating=219
# Set Bonuses
# main_hand=custom_built_lightsaber,weapon=lightsaber_306min_459maxThis is with 1 of each armor debuff.
EDIT: 6/24 midnight EST.
I'm getting different results than I was before for some reason D= However, if I swap an alacrity for a surge enhancement (giving me only 270 surge total and 279 alacrity) it's definitely telling me to go alacrity on Hybrid (alacrity worth nearly 2x as much as surge) and in TK spec it's worth 1/3 more than crit and close to 2x as much as surge. In fact, after swapping that enhancement (only 51 alacrity to surge) I lost 4 dps so in TK and stayed exactly the same in Hybrid. After upgrading current enhancements, it may just be alacrity will be the secondary stat that will bring the most dps this tier if simcraft is right.
RE: Sorcerer|Sage DPS Compendium - leslieb - 06-26-2012 02:07 PM
First, sorry for my "noob" question. Is this formula correct? 140 WP=1% crit chance at lvl 50 and 1 WP=0.2 dmg and 1 Power=0.23 dmg then Advcanced Resolve Augment have 0.128% and 3.6 damage and Advanced Overkill Augment gives 4.14 dmg.
RE: Sorcerer|Sage DPS Compendium - Kaedis - 06-26-2012 05:14 PM
Quote:First, sorry for my "noob" question. Is this formula correct? 140 WP=1% crit chance at lvl 50 and 1 WP=0.2 dmg and 1 Power=0.23 dmg then Advcanced Resolve Augment have 0.128% and 3.6 damage and Advanced Overkill Augment gives 4.14 dmg.
Willpower provides a scaling amount of crit chance on a separate DR curve from Crit Rating. There's no one ratio for Willpower to crit chance. Also, keep in mind that Willpower is buffed by 11% by the sum of Will of the Sith and Mark of Power. With these effects included, Power only provides 3.6% more Damage Bonus per point than Willpower does, while Willpower provides crit chance in addition. At essentially all available gear levels, Willpower is fairly stable at 10% better than Power, point for point. You should always be using Resolve augments.
RE: Sorcerer|Sage DPS Compendium - Nogbad - 06-28-2012 06:56 AM
Can someone explain to me why lightning/tele is topping the parsers? Because I haven't heard of any fixes or buffs that would suggest that that should be the case. But obviously numbers don't lie. I'm just curious.
RE: Sorcerer|Sage DPS Compendium - Kaedis - 06-28-2012 07:40 AM
Lightning scales better with armor debuffs. The original SimC results I was quoting assumed only a single 20% armor debuff. Beyond that, the results in the OP (which I really need to update) were before we discovered the Barrage double-dip bug, inaccurately propping up the Hybrid's output. 1.3 completely removed double-dipping (though it hasn't been a DPS increase since about 1.2), and also removed armor debuff stacking. I suspect this will put the specs relatively even again, though I won't know for sure until I find time to download the latest version of SimC and run a full sim.
RE: Sorcerer|Sage DPS Compendium - nish - 06-28-2012 05:11 PM
(06-28-2012 07:40 AM)Kaedis Wrote: Lightning scales better with armor debuffs. The original SimC results I was quoting assumed only a single 20% armor debuff. Beyond that, the results in the OP (which I really need to update) were before we discovered the Barrage double-dip bug, inaccurately propping up the Hybrid's output. 1.3 completely removed double-dipping (though it hasn't been a DPS increase since about 1.2), and also removed armor debuff stacking. I suspect this will put the specs relatively even again, though I won't know for sure until I find time to download the latest version of SimC and run a full sim.
One quick question, Kaedis. Does this value for willpower over crit come from including the need for crits to proc any abilities? I'm wondering because I'm thinking of other classes and how their mainstat compares.
Thanks,
-Nish
RE: Sorcerer|Sage DPS Compendium - bruin - 06-28-2012 07:28 PM
This is my first reply/post so please be gentle
I have read this entire thread and am a bit confused on a few things. I am a 100% PVP player that is full WH but don't have them modded out yet. I am using Balance (Madness) spec. I am not sure if the compendium was meant more for PVE or not as there seem to be many PVE related replies here. My 2 questions are as follows.
1) Reply #106 asked if Hybrid spec was still better but I did not see a reply to his question. I understand new SIM tests probably have not been run yet for 1.3 but what is your recommendation for PVP best spec? Does Hybrid beat out Madness still?
2) Regarding rotation for Madness, you stated
When opening on a target, the recommended sequence is: Pre-cast Crushing Darkness (without Wrath) > Affliction > Creeping Terror > Force Lightning > Force Lightning > Death Field. This is one of the only circumstances where it's worth hardcasting Crushing Darkness rather than waiting for a Wrath proc.
For PVP purposes, this does not make sense to me. In the very beginning of games I usually encounter a cluster (or look for one) of 3 or more enemies. Therefore, my rotation is as follows:
Force Armor, Force Potency, Force in Balance, Weaken Mind, Sever Force, TK Throw, Disturbance off proc, TK throw if no proc.
It is my understanding that hitting a group of targets with Force in Balance (from Force Suppression) allows me to do 20% more DOT damage to those targets I hit. Therefore, it would seem to be the best opener to setup your DoTs with.
I should also add that I have the Stalker set bonus giving me an extra Force Potency charge and reduced cooldown.
Thank you very much to any and all replies regarding these 2 questions!
One more question
With 1.3 and for PVP purposes, I am currently using 2 War Hero Power relics. Would you recommend this over using one power relic and the matrix cube?
RE: Sorcerer|Sage DPS Compendium - Kaedis - 06-29-2012 06:16 AM
Quote:One quick question, Kaedis. Does this value for willpower over crit come from including the need for crits to proc any abilities? I'm wondering because I'm thinking of other classes and how their mainstat compares.
Thanks,
-Nish
Yes, as these values come from a Sim that finds these values by running progressive sims with plus or minus a step interval of those stats, so proc chances are included in the results. For other classes that have less (or more) crit-based procs, the Crit to Power balance ratio will be different (as it is at different gear levels even for Sorcs).
Quote:I have read this entire thread and am a bit confused on a few things. I am a 100% PVP player that is full WH but don't have them modded out yet. I am using Balance (Madness) spec. I am not sure if the compendium was meant more for PVE or not as there seem to be many PVE related replies here.
Yes, this compendium (and thread) are intended specifically and only to address PvE concerns (which I actually noted several times in the OP). PvP related question are best asked in the PvP subforum.
Since the remainder of your questions are trying to derive PvP context from my PvE-specific guide, I'm going to go ahead and skip them. I recommend reposting your questions in the Sith Sorcerer PvP Builds thread, if the thread doesn't answer your questions already.
One thing to note, however, is that DoT effects update on a per-tick basis. Putting a DoT up, then using Force In Balance (Deathfield) still gives you the full 20% bonus to damage on the DoT, and the DoT will start ticking only 1.5 seconds after the AoE, rather than 4.5 seconds after.
RE: Sorcerer|Sage DPS Compendium - pichon - 06-29-2012 10:49 PM
With the changes done to the WH Relics, they now give 113 pwr. Do you think it is now best to wear WH relic x 2 or maybe cube/relic?