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RE: Sorcerer|Sage DPS Compendium - pichon - 05-16-2012 05:59 AM
(05-16-2012 04:44 AM)frmorrison Wrote: There are no set numbers to hit, just there are points when stats reach heavy diminishing returns. For example, once you hit close to 300 Surge, getting another 40 Surge will give a lot less benefit that going from 260 to 300. So you want to reach around 300 Surge, then collect around 250 alacrity. Once those are about equal, then slowly increase both stats at about a 3:2 ratio (surge to alacrity).
What About crit and power? How low does alacrity have to be and high does crit have to be where Alacrity becomes beneficial over it?
RE: Sorcerer|Sage DPS Compendium - Fuhrerschein - 05-16-2012 06:04 AM
alacrity only directly competes with surge (i.e. you can only trade 1 for the other)
same with power and crit
RE: Sorcerer|Sage DPS Compendium - pichon - 05-16-2012 06:28 AM
Well then when does crit. begin to have diminishing returns, 30%? Also as madness how should I go about stacking crit/power?
RE: Sorcerer|Sage DPS Compendium - Wugan - 05-16-2012 06:37 AM
The answer to all these questions can be found in the original post, in addition to using SimCraft, also discussed in the original post.
RE: Sorcerer|Sage DPS Compendium - Kaedis - 05-16-2012 08:17 AM
Quote:Theory 1: Keep the 1/12/28 build and when Psychic Projection (Lightning Barrage) procs, use the first full 4 hasted cast, then simply move to cancel out the second. If the first cast is benefiting from the full 4 ticks at double speed, then our DPS should slightly benefit as well, no? Once we move after casting the first hasted proc, the proc goes away, as anyone who has dodged anything in any fight while casting while the proc is up can tell you.
You don't even need to move, just wait for the first FL to finish casting before hitting the button again. The double-dip relied on abusing the ability queue system a bit, just don't queue the next FL and you won't double-dip.
Quote:Theory 2: Spec to 2/11/28, adding to Penetrating Light (Seeping Darkness) and removing 1 point from Psychic Projection (Lightning Barrage). Let's face it, since the proc is either DPS Neutral or even DPS Negative, why not knock the proc down to 50% of Weaken Mind (Affliction) ticks and take an extra 1% crit? The same idea from Theory 1 would apply, move after first hasted cast, and continue.
Woah! Hold the phone. Double-dipping the proc is dps-neutral or a dps loss. The proc itself is still very potent.
Quote:It's while stacking an obscene number of armor debuffs on the boss. I might be mistaken, but I'm pretty sure that Telekinetics has the highest proportion of armor-mitigated damage by a good margin, which means it scales the best with armor debuffs.
Actually, Hybrid spec has the highest portion armor mitigated (about 75%), Madness and Lightning both only see about 67% armor mitigated. Also, yes, Xeno is quoting those off multi-DoT fights, where he can strongly amplify his Barrage proc rate.
Quote:Thanks for explaining that. I think I'm following you now. So if that is the case, then removing the 2 points for LB into the talent that gives us 2% more crit would have to be better than the standard hybrid build no??
Barrage still gets you 4 ticks in the time you normally get 2. That's basically half the damage of an FL cast per Barrage proc, which really isn't something to thumb your nose at. I'd have to run it through SimC, but my gut says that Barrage is still superior to 2% more crit.
Quote:Due to the internal CD of LB proc (I think 10s), you may not notice much of a difference if your crit is high enough for affliction to trigger.
Negative. Removing 1 point cuts your effective crit chance by half. At 30% crit with 2/2, your average time between procs will be 19 seconds. At 30% crit with 1/2, your average time between procs will be 29 seconds, a significant reduction in benefit. I'm almost certain that that points would be better than 1% crit.
Quote:Well then when does crit. begin to have diminishing returns, 30%? Also as madness how should I go about stacking crit/power?
To make it easy for you, roughly 2:1 Power to Crit.
RE: Sorcerer|Sage DPS Compendium - TheDarkness - 05-16-2012 02:38 PM
This whole queuing fiasco makes me wonder if tics are being dropped on regular casted and queued Force Lightnings.
RE: Sorcerer|Sage DPS Compendium - Caltiom - 05-16-2012 05:35 PM
(05-13-2012 08:35 AM)Kaedis Wrote: Update: This is precisely what is happening, but 1.2.3 did not fix the issue. Here's the details from my combat log:
Code:
[16:36:51.508] [@Korah] [@Korah] [Lightning Barrage {1960420642390016}] [ApplyEffect {836045448945477}: Lightning Barrage {1960420642390016}] ()
[16:36:51.508] [@Korah] [Operations Training Dummy {2857785339412480}] [Affliction (Force) {808192586023173}] [ApplyEffect {836045448945477}: Damage {836045448945501}] (522* internal {836045448940876}) <522>
[16:36:52.909] [@Korah] [@Korah] [Force Lightning {808252715565056}] [Event {836045448945472}: AbilityActivate {836045448945479}] ()
[16:36:52.909] [@Korah] [@Korah] [] [Spend {836045448945473}: Force {836045448938502}] (27)
[16:36:52.909] [@Korah] [@Korah] [] [Restore {836045448945476}: Force {836045448938502}] (6)
[16:36:52.909] [@Korah] [Operations Training Dummy {2857785339412480}] [Shocked {808252715565342}] [ApplyEffect {836045448945477}: Damage {836045448945501}] (489 energy {836045448940874}) <489>
[16:36:53.507] [@Korah] [@Korah] [] [Restore {836045448945476}: Force {836045448938502}] (6)
[16:36:53.507] [@Korah] [Operations Training Dummy {2857785339412480}] [Shocked {808252715565342}] [ApplyEffect {836045448945477}: Damage {836045448945501}] (489 energy {836045448940874}) <489>
[16:36:54.005] [@Korah] [@Korah] [] [Restore {836045448945476}: Force {836045448938502}] (6)
[16:36:54.005] [@Korah] [Operations Training Dummy {2857785339412480}] [Shocked {808252715565342}] [ApplyEffect {836045448945477}: Damage {836045448945501}] (489 energy {836045448940874}) <489>
[16:36:54.505] [@Korah] [Operations Training Dummy {2857785339412480}] [Affliction (Force) {808192586023173}] [ApplyEffect {836045448945477}: Damage {836045448945501}] (295 internal {836045448940876}) <295>
[16:36:54.505] [@Korah] [Operations Training Dummy {2857785339412480}] [Shocked {808252715565342}] [ApplyEffect {836045448945477}: Damage {836045448945501}] (865* energy {836045448940874}) <865>
[16:36:54.506] [@Korah] [@Korah] [Lightning Barrage {1960420642390016}] [RemoveEffect {836045448945478}: Lightning Barrage {1960420642390016}] ()
[16:36:54.508] [@Korah] [@Korah] [Force Lightning {808252715565056}] [Event {836045448945472}: AbilityActivate {836045448945479}] ()
[16:36:54.508] [@Korah] [@Korah] [] [Spend {836045448945473}: Force {836045448938502}] (27)
[16:36:54.509] [@Korah] [@Korah] [] [Restore {836045448945476}: Force {836045448938502}] (6)
[16:36:54.509] [@Korah] [Operations Training Dummy {2857785339412480}] [Shocked {808252715565342}] [ApplyEffect {836045448945477}: Damage {836045448945501}] (489 energy {836045448940874}) <489>
[16:36:55.502] [@Korah] [@Korah] [] [Restore {836045448945476}: Force {836045448938502}] (6)
[16:36:55.502] [@Korah] [Operations Training Dummy {2857785339412480}] [Shocked {808252715565342}] [ApplyEffect {836045448945477}: Damage {836045448945501}] (865* energy {836045448940874}) <865>
[16:36:57.498] [@Korah] [Operations Training Dummy {2857785339412480}] [Affliction (Force) {808192586023173}] [ApplyEffect {836045448945477}: Damage {836045448945501}] (295 internal {836045448940876}) <295>
As you can see, the first channel received all 4 ticks, the second only 2, separated by 0.993 seconds. This is actually even more problematic than it appears, as I have 5.16% Alacrity, so those ticks should have been 0.948 seconds apart. In fact, the first channel is occurring over 1.596 seconds, rather than the 1.423 seconds it should have been.
Verdict is that double-dipping floats between being dps-neutral and a dps loss. Recommend against it. This seriously erodes the benefit of the hybrid spec.
Fixed in http://code.google.com/p/simulationcraft-swtor/source/detail?r=69d0b7ea2d56ede5c4d1545cd08dadf7e25331ef . I'm sure harly will at some point release 120-3.
When looking at the log, I saw that the very first tick is a bit delayed. Should I add a travel time to Force Lightning, or is this more of a general lag or combat log inaccuracy?
RE: Sorcerer|Sage DPS Compendium - Korrig - 05-17-2012 12:16 PM
(05-16-2012 08:17 AM)Kaedis Wrote: Actually, Hybrid spec has the highest portion armor mitigated (about 75%), Madness and Lightning both only see about 67% armor mitigated. Also, yes, Xeno is quoting those off multi-DoT fights, where he can strongly amplify his Barrage proc rate.
With the latest SimulationCraft, I'm seeing this approximate damage breakdown for lightning (with armor debuffs):
Affliction 8.4%
Chain Lightning 8.6%
Crushing Darkness 15.5%
Force Lightning 25.3%
Lightning Strike 25%
Thundering Blast 17.2%
Chain Lightning (Energy), Crushing Darkness (Kinetic), Force Lightning (Energy), and Lightning Strike (Energy) are all mitigated by armor. That's ~75% of lightning's damage output (in my gear).
RE: Sorcerer|Sage DPS Compendium - Kaedis - 05-17-2012 01:04 PM
AutoIt discussion split off into this thread, and some posts cleaned up in this thread.
Quote:With the latest SimulationCraft, I'm seeing this approximate damage breakdown for lightning (with armor debuffs):
I was using the 1.2 PTS version for my quote, I've not really been keeping track of the latest releases (keeping track of far too much else). I'm concerned that TB's damage is so low, it was closer to 21-22% in the PTS release, and I don't think Lightning's damage has simply gone up that much.
RE: Sorcerer|Sage DPS Compendium - Korrig - 05-17-2012 01:43 PM
(05-17-2012 01:04 PM)Kaedis Wrote: AutoIt discussion split off into this thread, and some posts cleaned up in this thread.I agree that TB is underwhelming to say the least. I really hope it is addressed in the future because I prefer lightning's play-style over FL spam.
Quote:With the latest SimulationCraft, I'm seeing this approximate damage breakdown for lightning (with armor debuffs):
I was using the 1.2 PTS version for my quote, I've not really been keeping track of the latest releases (keeping track of far too much else). I'm concerned that TB's damage is so low, it was closer to 21-22% in the PTS release, and I don't think Lightning's damage has simply gone up that much.