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RE: Sorcerer DPS BIS discussion - PnoT - 07-21-2012 07:47 AM
(07-21-2012 02:27 AM)hatterson Wrote:(07-21-2012 12:24 AM)PnoT Wrote: Here is a 4m fight I did this morning before switching to Hybrid. My rotation wasn't flawless but not horrible either.
http://www.torparse.com/a/4026/7
K, I ran a sim of 250 seconds and matched that to your first 250 seconds (roughly when you stopped actually DPSing).
Your results were 1343 DPS compared with the SimC run of 1766 a 423 difference.
The biggest difference I see is in the number of filler casts.
Affliction, Thundering Blast and Crushing Darkness all hit close to the same number of times (within 1 or 2), but there was a significant difference in casts of both force lightning and lightning strike (which then dropped the casts of CL).
The SimC average run has 63-64 casts of LS, with 19 procs. Your parse had 42 regular casts with 14 procs. That loss of 20 normal casts and the associated procs dropped about 130-135 DPS.
The SimC average run has 128 ticks of force lightning. Your parse had 97. Those make up for ~110 DPS.
The SimC average run also cast CL 12-13 times and proced it another 4. Your parse had 8 casts and 2 procs. Those extra 4-5 casts and 2 procs make up about 45-55 DPS.
That's 290 of the 423 difference.
The other ~130 comes from a missed TB in the beginning of the fight (first at 3s and then not one until 25s), one that didn't crit at 47s, and a few clips/slow applications of affliction that happened (21s clip, 121s slow application [10s between dots], 211s clip) etc.
I'm not sure where the difference in cast time is coming from, but I'd guess it's a combination of lag and ability delay, you could try playing with the queuing options and seeing if you can get higher numbers on FL and LS.
As far as getting that extra 130 DPS, I wouldn't worry about it. The odd clip or misjudged TB will happen from time to time. It hurts, and you should certainly avoid it, but you're not perfect. The SimC stuff is a "perfect" simulation and represents you being able to react instantly to various things such as ability expiration, and buffs. It's really not supposed to be a goal line that you can get to as much as a theoretical point at which to judge gearings.
Ouch, so I somehow am short 40+ casts in that 4 minute fight which is pretty crazy. Activation lag, on the new packed servers, is horrible at times and with me being another 40ms over what someone on the east coast is might explain things. There's just noway I can make up that amount of casts and it's back to Hybrid for me I guess.
I appreciate your hard work and dedication to figuring out what's going on. I'd love to see someone else chime in with a nice parse to show that achieving high numbers on that build works with todays servers.
RE: Sorcerer DPS BIS discussion - Kaedis - 07-21-2012 03:32 PM
(07-21-2012 03:24 AM)Korrig Wrote: Looks like this accidentally got removed from the Important Thread section again
Fixed.
RE: Sorcerer DPS BIS discussion - Jizones - 07-23-2012 03:40 AM
(07-21-2012 07:47 AM)PnoT Wrote:(07-21-2012 02:27 AM)hatterson Wrote:(07-21-2012 12:24 AM)PnoT Wrote: Here is a 4m fight I did this morning before switching to Hybrid. My rotation wasn't flawless but not horrible either.
http://www.torparse.com/a/4026/7
K, I ran a sim of 250 seconds and matched that to your first 250 seconds (roughly when you stopped actually DPSing).
Your results were 1343 DPS compared with the SimC run of 1766 a 423 difference.
The biggest difference I see is in the number of filler casts.
Affliction, Thundering Blast and Crushing Darkness all hit close to the same number of times (within 1 or 2), but there was a significant difference in casts of both force lightning and lightning strike (which then dropped the casts of CL).
The SimC average run has 63-64 casts of LS, with 19 procs. Your parse had 42 regular casts with 14 procs. That loss of 20 normal casts and the associated procs dropped about 130-135 DPS.
The SimC average run has 128 ticks of force lightning. Your parse had 97. Those make up for ~110 DPS.
The SimC average run also cast CL 12-13 times and proced it another 4. Your parse had 8 casts and 2 procs. Those extra 4-5 casts and 2 procs make up about 45-55 DPS.
That's 290 of the 423 difference.
The other ~130 comes from a missed TB in the beginning of the fight (first at 3s and then not one until 25s), one that didn't crit at 47s, and a few clips/slow applications of affliction that happened (21s clip, 121s slow application [10s between dots], 211s clip) etc.
I'm not sure where the difference in cast time is coming from, but I'd guess it's a combination of lag and ability delay, you could try playing with the queuing options and seeing if you can get higher numbers on FL and LS.
As far as getting that extra 130 DPS, I wouldn't worry about it. The odd clip or misjudged TB will happen from time to time. It hurts, and you should certainly avoid it, but you're not perfect. The SimC stuff is a "perfect" simulation and represents you being able to react instantly to various things such as ability expiration, and buffs. It's really not supposed to be a goal line that you can get to as much as a theoretical point at which to judge gearings.
Ouch, so I somehow am short 40+ casts in that 4 minute fight which is pretty crazy. Activation lag, on the new packed servers, is horrible at times and with me being another 40ms over what someone on the east coast is might explain things. There's just noway I can make up that amount of casts and it's back to Hybrid for me I guess.
I appreciate your hard work and dedication to figuring out what's going on. I'd love to see someone else chime in with a nice parse to show that achieving high numbers on that build works with todays servers.
I'm glad I'm not the only one having this issue. I can parse hybrid less than 50dps difference in what my simc says, but tk spec parses about 120-150 behind my hybrid numbers. Hybrid is much easier to play perfect. I also have higher numbers with hybrid during the first 15-20 secs of the fight as well which makes me think that the whole tk/lightning burst blows others away thing kind of BS.
RE: Sorcerer DPS BIS discussion - hatterson - 07-23-2012 04:43 AM
(07-23-2012 03:40 AM)Jizones Wrote: I also have higher numbers with hybrid during the first 15-20 secs of the fight as well which makes me think that the whole tk/lightning burst blows others away thing kind of BS.
TK/lightning's burst advantage comes from the auto-crit ability of thundering blast, and insta cast chain lightning as well as polarity shift which is a very significant increase of DPS while it's up.
When just dealing with any 20-30 seconds of a fight, or when going without cooldowns, tk/lightning doesn't really have a huge burst advantage. But once you start mixing in cooldowns TK is 10-15% better than Hybrid/Madness over a short fight.
RE: Sorcerer DPS BIS discussion - Jizones - 07-31-2012 02:25 AM
I'm really having some issues coming to terms with stacking alacrity over surge for Tele/Lightning. Let me know if I'm missing something. Starting at 285 of each, more alacrity will increase the number of casts I get off in a set amount if time resulting in more dps than surge would grant over that same amount of time. However, I'm only gaining 0.01-0.02 seconds per cast. You would have to cast nonstop for close to two minutes to gain an extra global cooldown. If you ever failed to queue an ability even once due to lag or having to move or even just messing up your rotation ever so slightly before you've gained your extra gcd, then you've lost any benefit that alacrity granted.
EDIT: This made perfect sense when I typed it, but after thinking more about it, given two exactly the same fights the one with more alacrity will always be "ahead" of the one with less regardless of mistakes or movement.
RE: Sorcerer DPS BIS discussion - hatterson - 07-31-2012 04:54 AM
First: Posted this in the DPS compendium and linking it here because it is also relevant for BiS discussion.
Effect of set bonuses
Second: Regarding Alacrity vs. Surge
The smallest amount we can swap is 57 so the swap from 285-285 to 342-228 is one enhancement worth. As far as the benefits feeling small...well they are. The benefits from those extra 57 surge rating is also small. And, as SimC tells us, the alacrity is better.
Keep in mind, we're not talking about large differences either way. A single enhancement swap only makes a difference in the order of tenths of a percent on overall DPS so certain swap might "feel" wrong when we think about how small the difference is.
RE: Sorcerer DPS BIS discussion - Kaedis - 07-31-2012 07:50 AM
Note that at 300 Surge rating, the maximum remaining benefit from Surge is only a 2.7% increase in crit damage, and that's if you stacked an infinite amount of Surge Rating. IE. going from 300 Surge Rating to infinite surge rating increases your crit damage by only 2.7%, which is maybe a 1% increase to DPS. Surge just decays that quickly.
Lets take a very rough analysis to visualize this. Lets make the following assumptions (all of which are approximately true for Lightning):
- 75% of your damage comes from cast-time sources..
- 50% of your damage results from critical hits.
- You have a total of 600 budget for Alacrity and Surge.
- You can convert between the two stats 50 rating at a time.
- There are no other effects that would alter the benefit of Alacrity or Surge rating (ie. additional sources of haste, crit, or crit mult).
Let's take the 300 Surge and 300 Alacrity as a starting point. 300 Surge gives 25.2790% Crit Mult. 300 Alacrity gives 9.2746% Activation Speed. That boosts your cast time damage by 1 / (1 - 0.092746) = 10.2%, and your crit damage portion by (1.5 + 0.25279) / (1.5) = 16.9%. Given the above percentages of damage that come from each source, the total is 7.7% increase in DPS due to Alacrity, and an 8.4% increase due to Surge, for a total of 16.7% increased DPS.
Now lets examine 600 Surge and 0 Alacrity. 600 Surge provides 29.2571% Crit Mult. 0 Alacrity obviously provides 0% Activation speed. Your cast time damage remains at base, while your crit damage is amplified by (1.5 + 0.292571) / (1.5) = 19.5%. Given the above percentages again (only half your damage scales with Crit Mult), this is only a 9.75% increase in total DPS, or a 6% loss in DPS compared to the 300/300 setup.
In the latter case, your crits are hitting for 2.27% more damage than in the first one, but you are casting 10.2% less cast time effects in a given time period than in the first one.
In a world with no DR, things would be different, but due to how quickly and harshly Surge Rating DRs, particularly past about 200-300 Surge Rating, Alacrity quickly takes over as the more optimal stat for net DPS output.
RE: Sorcerer DPS BIS discussion - everwake - 08-02-2012 04:34 AM
i couldnt find the answer elsewhere so im gonna ask it here: how much (in terms of dps gain) is our 4p worth? i'm lightning specced, working on my end game gear and was wondering if i gain anything for swapping resolve armoring 26 in my hands for the campaign one. so it's a question 11willpower vs 4p bonus.
other thing is balancing my power and crit. what the ratio should be? (im currently at 867vs295 in favor of power ofc).
i'm at about 1,82k dps on the dummy (flasked and full buffed inc armor debuff).
RE: Sorcerer DPS BIS discussion - Kaedis - 08-02-2012 05:56 PM
Quote:i couldnt find the answer elsewhere so im gonna ask it here: how much (in terms of dps gain) is our 4p worth?
You didn't look very hard, then. Hatterson linked the set bonus breakdown just two posts above yours.
As for the stat ratios, Hatterson links the final BIS lists here. You can use that to gauge your stat ratios.
On a final moderator note, your post flirted with the infractable "do your research" line quite closely. Please take a bit more time to look around for answers before asking questions like that in the future.
RE: Sorcerer DPS BIS discussion - FlatOut - 08-04-2012 07:49 AM
Want to ask about BiS relics. What the best combination? War Hero Relic of Boundless Ages/Campaign Relic of Boundless Ages or 2xWar Hero Relic of Boundless Ages. I`m madness specced'. In BiS says combitanion, but some people there say that the best is 2x war hero relics. Who say true?