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+--- Thread: Sorcerer DPS BIS discussion (/thread-826.html)
RE: Sorcerer DPS BIS discussion - Wugan - 07-12-2012 07:31 AM
I assume these are based on Patchwerk fights, yes. Hybrid is also highly mobile, I think the same as Balance/Madness. The only thing you need to stand and cast (outside of AoE) is Telekinetic Throw/Force Lightning. Weaken Mind, Force In Balance, Project, and Mind Crush are all instant casts. Mind Crush/Crushing Darkness should be instant cast for you in Balance/Madness spec as well, since you really only want to use it with Wrath/PoM procs outside of maybe the initial pull.
RE: Sorcerer DPS BIS discussion - whyzerman - 07-12-2012 07:41 AM
(07-12-2012 07:31 AM)Wugan Wrote: Mind Crush/Crushing Darkness should be instant cast for you in Balance/Madness spec as well, since you really only want to use it with Wrath/PoM procs outside of maybe the initial pull.
This is largely the case, however there are times when Wrath does not proc and I need to get CD back up regardless of the cast time which is why I included it as an ability with a cast time. Granted it may only happen once a fight, but that is enough to make a difference especially in a fight like Kephess where every second counts.
RE: Sorcerer DPS BIS discussion - Korrig - 07-12-2012 08:10 AM
(07-12-2012 07:00 AM)whyzerman Wrote: Also in the madness spec, you give up a 6% damage boost to crushing darkness for 100 more force and 3 seconds on affliction.
Good catch whyzerman, I didn't notice that the first time I looked at the tree. I switched the BiS Madness profile to my personal spec, and I'm now seeing a DPS of 1798 using hatterson's action list and BiS gear.
Hatterson, whenever you get a chance could you verify this in your 1.3 BiS Madness tree? Move the 3 points from 'Electric Induction' to 'Convection'. I'm getting DPS values of ~1800.
RE: Sorcerer DPS BIS discussion - nish - 07-12-2012 08:36 AM
For burst damage and aoe on Kephess nothing beats lightning. My dps goes up to like 2500 on any random aoe pack where any other character I'm with I see tops around 1000-1200.
Being that I can get that damage on aoe and never run out of force, the closeness of lightning's dps to others on heavy movement is enough for me to keep that spec.
-Nish
RE: Sorcerer DPS BIS discussion - hatterson - 07-12-2012 10:06 AM
(07-12-2012 08:10 AM)Korrig Wrote:(07-12-2012 07:00 AM)whyzerman Wrote: Also in the madness spec, you give up a 6% damage boost to crushing darkness for 100 more force and 3 seconds on affliction.
Good catch whyzerman, I didn't notice that the first time I looked at the tree. I switched the BiS Madness profile to my personal spec, and I'm now seeing a DPS of 1798 using hatterson's action list and BiS gear.
Hatterson, whenever you get a chance could you verify this in your 1.3 BiS Madness tree? Move the 3 points from 'Electric Induction' to 'Convection'. I'm getting DPS values of ~1800.
You are absolutely correct. I hadn't even noticed that. I'm assuming the "standard" that's in the compendium was in there from when force used to be a concern.
However now Madness is force neutral using the compendium build (with 3 points in Electric Induction) and only ~1-1.25 force / second negative in your build (with 3 points in Convection) [which is actually very similar to lightning]
Assuming 100% cast time it would take 440-550 seconds (7:20-9:10) before you start seeing an impact on your casting.
I think it comes down to personal choice at that point. If you know you're going to be doing more AoE with force lighting and hence burning through force faster, then going with the points in Electric Induction will give you more sustainability and thus more DPS over the entire fight. However if you're either not going to be doing much AoE, or have a chance to regen a bit, then Convection will give you more DPS)
RE: Sorcerer DPS BIS discussion - hatterson - 07-12-2012 10:19 AM
(07-12-2012 07:00 AM)whyzerman Wrote: Are these numbers based on a static (Patchwerk) type fight? I only ask because most of the fights in EC require a lot of target swapping and movement.
Yes, these are all done on the Patchwerk setting. I haven't yet had the time to go through and see how much, if at all, the stat weights change, and how the specs compare at other movement levels. I may do it this weekend.
My guess, based on just intuition is that the value of alacrity will increase in the madness and hybrid specs and they will get closer to lightning as the level of movement increases. Hopefully I'll get a chance to run the numbers and see if my intuition is correct.
(07-12-2012 07:00 AM)whyzerman Wrote: With the only 2 cast times I have as Madness being Force Lightning and Crushing Darkness, it would seem that Madness would pull ahead of Lightning/Hybrid in this instance.
It is actually a DPS loss to hardcast Crushing Darkness as opposed to just continuing to spam FL until it pops. Not only does it remove an average of 2.5 FL ticks from your damage, a hard cast CD hits for 20% less than a wrath buffed CD.
RE: Sorcerer DPS BIS discussion - Kaedis - 07-12-2012 10:51 AM
Quote:It is actually a DPS loss to hardcast Crushing Darkness as opposed to just continuing to spam CL until it pops. Not only does it remove an average of 2.5 CL ticks from your damage, a hard cast CD hits for 20% less than a wrath buffed CD.
*cough*FL*coughcough*
That said, in situations where you are about to be forced out of range, or you just targeted an opponent (for example, the walker zerg phases on Kephiss), it is still very much a DPS gain if you can precast it.
RE: Sorcerer DPS BIS discussion - hatterson - 07-12-2012 11:08 AM
(07-12-2012 10:51 AM)Kaedis Wrote:Quote:It is actually a DPS loss to hardcast Crushing Darkness as opposed to just continuing to spam CL until it pops. Not only does it remove an average of 2.5 CL ticks from your damage, a hard cast CD hits for 20% less than a wrath buffed CD.
*cough*FL*coughcough*
That said, in situations where you are about to be forced out of range, or you just targeted an opponent (for example, the walker zerg phases on Kephiss), it is still very much a DPS gain if you can precast it.
Haha, yes FL not CL, it's been a long day. I updated my post to make sure people weren't confused.
And yes, precasting CD is a DPS gain, however the context in which the post was given (and later clarified) made it seem like it was a "well I want to start the cooldown ticking again so it's not just sitting there" situation rather than a situation where you either have limited time on the mob (running away) or can pre-cast it.
RE: Sorcerer DPS BIS discussion - whyzerman - 07-12-2012 11:15 AM
(07-12-2012 11:08 AM)hatterson Wrote:(07-12-2012 10:51 AM)Kaedis Wrote:Quote:It is actually a DPS loss to hardcast Crushing Darkness as opposed to just continuing to spam CL until it pops. Not only does it remove an average of 2.5 CL ticks from your damage, a hard cast CD hits for 20% less than a wrath buffed CD.
*cough*FL*coughcough*
That said, in situations where you are about to be forced out of range, or you just targeted an opponent (for example, the walker zerg phases on Kephiss), it is still very much a DPS gain if you can precast it.
Haha, yes FL not CL, it's been a long day. I updated my post to make sure people weren't confused.
And yes, precasting CD is a DPS gain, however the context in which the post was given (and later clarified) made it seem like it was a "well I want to start the cooldown ticking again so it's not just sitting there" situation rather than a situation where you either have limited time on the mob (running away) or can pre-cast it.
And thats exactly how I meant it, I didnt realize casting FL until wrath proced would be a dps gain. For instance the burn phase on Soa or the burn phase on the Walker and bombers in EC. Usually what I do is hit the target with Death Field, then FL once hoping for a wrath proc. If it doesn't proc I cast CD anyway then throw up Affliction and Creeping Terror, then spam FL more (usually 3 full casts) til Death Field comes back off CD. By then I have ~3 seconds left on Affliction, and ~5 seconds left on Creeping Terror which is plenty of time to re-cast Crushing Darkness and refresh the other 2 once they tick their last dot.
Thanks for the info guys.
RE: Sorcerer DPS BIS discussion - Freehugs - 07-18-2012 02:49 PM
Hi guys, what's this bit do in the lightning rotation:
C: actions+=/sequence,name=pewpew:force_lightning:lightning_strike
D: actions+=/restart_sequence,name=pewpew
I see the simulation tends to cast them in order like D, C, D, C, D, C. Is it just alternating between Force Lightning and Lightning Strike? Why?