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Highest DPS Assassin Madness spec/rotation? - Makk - 03-09-2012 05:34 AM
Based on the current/latest info and the simulationcraft, what is considered the highest DPS madness spec and associated rotation? (or perhaps a better question is; what is the recommended madness spec and rotation.. which may not be the same as the highest dps one)
RE: highest DPS madness spec/rotation? - Thepixel - 03-09-2012 05:58 AM
If you look in this thread, you'll see a bit of discussion on the first few pages about our rotation.
Previously, our default builds would look like 5/5/31 or 7/3/31 (5/3/31 core with 2 for flavor)
Standard rotations involved keeping up Creeping Terror, Discharge, using Crushing Darkness on Raze, Death Field on CD, Shock once every 30 seconds for the Unearthed Knowledge buff, Maul with Exploit Weakness up, then using thrash in between and saber strike when low on force (obviously assassinate becomes very important at enemy < 30%)
As it stands, we seem to gain a decent amount of dps by actually simplifying our rotation and completely removing shock. This was conjectured previously and has been mathematically proposed via simulationcraft... And I have since noticed a dps increase since changing my own rotation as such, as well as the napkin math seeming to agree with this theory. (Just remove shock from the above priorities/rotation, which leads to more thrashes and better force control overall... And I still finish first in the council [although on NiM last night our marauder nearly tied me])
As a result, you can choose to remove the talent points in UK and chain shock if you choose... Giving up these talents for things that may help slightly with heals in ops, while soloing, or even in pvp. Note that the core numbers above should remain (5/3/31 is REQUIRED, with 2 for flavor)
Example with this theory is 5/5/31
It's actually kind of unfortunate that we need to spend so many points in madness now, but the top part of the madness tree is very central to our dps... And i don't see any viable hybridization from here.
RE: highest DPS madness spec/rotation? - Makk - 03-09-2012 07:21 AM
Thanks
For reference, I just hit level 41 and finishes filling out the madness tree. So the specific things I was wondering were:
- Is there really value with putting points into Duplicity at all? (currently I don't seem to use Maul at all, then again.. I don't have Duplicity yet - should I be putting points into duplicity and add Maul to my rotation?) If so, wouldn't it be better to put points into something such as Electric Execution (or perhaps some of the more defense oriented ones)
- Is there value with Dark Embrace? Currently I am not finding myself force starved (I think.. will look more closely)
- Just where does Creeping Terror fit in the rotation? (I just got it so I don't have much experience with it)
For reference, the rotation I seem to use is:
Opener: Death Field, Shock, Discharge, Trash
Then I go to the rotation you describe above (except I just got Creeping Terror so not sure how to best fit it in)
Thanks much!
RE: highest DPS madness spec/rotation? - Thepixel - 03-09-2012 08:30 AM
(03-09-2012 07:21 AM)Makk Wrote: - Is there really value with putting points into Duplicity at all? (currently I don't seem to use Maul at all, then again.. I don't have Duplicity yet - should I be putting points into duplicity and add Maul to my rotation?) If so, wouldn't it be better to put points into something such as Electric Execution (or perhaps some of the more defense oriented ones)
Absolutely, Maul does more damage than thrash for the exact same resource and time cost when Exploit Weakness is up. This will be less useful while soloing, but using a tank companion it'll be useful for those rare cases where you companion holds aggro.
(03-09-2012 07:21 AM)Makk Wrote: - Is there value with Dark Embrace? Currently I am not finding myself force starved (I think.. will look more closely)As stated above, the two points in Dark Embrace are by choice. Overall, this will help min/max your dps at high levels (eventually your rotation will require saber strikes, any amount of extra force regen that is not wasted will decrease that number and increase your total dps.
It's useful for the buff to start a fight as well as using force cloak when low on resources in flashpoints or ops (I rarely get to use it in this manner because I instead have to use it to save myself from death, or revive an ally during certain combat situations). Electric execution is less useful than this regarding dps, and I would say your only other option is in the force speed cast time reduction (which is actually better for certain things such as Soa ops fights where you need to try to use force speed quite a bit to move around a bit. This is also useful on other fights such as ghaarj but I tend to take full advantage of my force shrouds to maximize dps in situations where moving away is normally required)
(03-09-2012 07:21 AM)Makk Wrote: - Just where does Creeping Terror fit in the rotation? (I just got it so I don't have much experience with it)
In the same place as discharge. There's still a small debate in my brain as to whether the opener should start with death field -> discharge -> creeping terror -> proceed... Or whether the very slight increase in dot damage at the start of a fight by starting with discharge/ct -> other dot -> death field. I tend to use deathfield first in ops because this will jumpstart your force regen and you'll still consume all 10 deathmarks before it comes back off of cd, even with the slight loss in dps I suspect that in elongated fights this very small amount of damage you push back doesn't outweigh the theoretically 3 second faster deathfields down the line.
EDIT: Probably should note that the dots should be refreshed as they run out (I typically buffer the dot in my chain of abilities at the point where it is going to run out on the next gcd... ie it casts at essentially the moment the dot would run out.), and watching these as well as your raze/exploit weakness procs are going to be the most difficult part of the spec. It is also possible to count the number of gcds to sync the dot timers as well if you choose, but I've gotten far too used to watching for the debuffs to switch to that method.
RE: Highest DPS Assassin Madness spec/rotation? - Makk - 03-10-2012 06:46 AM
Thank you very much
RE: Highest DPS Assassin Madness spec/rotation? - Mixmaster - 03-15-2012 03:19 AM
I am having issues making serious dps as most say with this spec. Has anything been nurfed? I have a couple pieces of Champion and rest Centurion. Also some of the old videos show stacking surge. ATM, I have none.
Also usually 1 v 1 I get owned.
Help appreciated
RE: Highest DPS Assassin Madness spec/rotation? - frmorrison - 03-15-2012 04:47 AM
(03-15-2012 03:19 AM)Mixmaster Wrote: I am having issues making serious dps as most say with this spec. Has anything been nurfed? I have a couple pieces of Champion and rest Centurion. Also some of the old videos show stacking surge. ATM, I have none.
Also usually 1 v 1 I get owned.
Help appreciated
Nothing has been nerfed, at least not yet.
Madness is the top PvE dps spec, but I am not sure about PvP dps. Try looking here: http://sithwarrior.com/forums/Thread-Sith-Assassin-PvP It seems 31/0/10 is popular (using the tank tree). Surge is good stat, try replacing some Accuracy enhancements with Power/Surge ones (after you have reached 5% hit, it will say 95% hit on your melee tab and 105% hit on your force tab).
RE: Highest DPS Assassin Madness spec/rotation? - Talonwk9 - 03-15-2012 06:51 AM
After trying all the standard 31 builds I found that energy was the biggest limiting factor in PVE dps.
This build takes advantage of the best energy regen skill blood of sith.
I have not seen this build but I am certainly not claiming to be the first to come up with it either.
The Build:
Omniscient's assassin PVE DPS Build
The Buffs:
Lightning Charge
Mark of Power
The Rotation:
Death Field (force cost reduced to 25 with fanaticism)
Discharge
Shock
Thrash
Crushing Darkness (used only when Raze procs)
Saber Strike (very rarely used if at all)
Refresh death field, discharge and Unearthed Knowledge with Shock. Make sure to avoid clipping your discharge otherwise you will lose a tick of damage each rotation.
Reasons why I think this is best PVE dps:
Easy Rotation.
Best energy regen skill for assassins with blood of sith.
Tons of bonuses to thrash that you spam a lot:
1) Rakata Stalkers Gear set bonus (increase crit chance 15%).
2) Claws of Decay increases the critical strike damage dealt by 50%.
3) Unearthed Knowledge increased your melee damage bonus by 10%
4) Exploitive Strikes gives even more melee crit
5) Charge Mastery more passive crit
6) Torment makes thrash the cheapest spammable attack
7) Thrashing Blades 6% more damage
Lightning charge procs more often, does more damage, and discharges for more damage than surging charge.
It also gains benefits from deathmark, electric execution, and crackling charge.
Another reason this is better than 31 madness spec is that the 31 point talent, creeping terror, does very weak damage and steals deathmarks from discharge and crushing darkness and its better to use thrash with all of its benefits.
Thrash also can proc raze which gives you an instant free (normally 40 force 2 sec cast) attack therefore you get a free GCD and 1.5 secs of your 30% boosted force regen.
With this spec I rarely if ever have to use saber strike which is an extremely weak attack. If for some wierd reason you find yourself running out of force you can move a point or 2 from unearthed knowledge into calculating mind. With that point or 2 I would imagine there would be no need ever to use saber strike.
Deception is a better burst DPS build but it will not stand up in sustained dps with no dots and the weakest force regeneration.
Additonal benefits:
3% extra endurance
2% damage reduction
Force Speed shorter CD and movement impairment break
Chance for extra shock damage
Small self healing
RE: Highest DPS Assassin Madness spec/rotation? - Thepixel - 03-15-2012 03:17 PM
(03-15-2012 06:51 AM)Talonwk9 Wrote: Refresh death field, discharge and Unearthed Knowledge with Shock. Make sure to avoid clipping your discharge otherwise you will lose a tick of damage each rotation.
You're close, but remove Shock and UK, then watch the magic happen. We talk about it for a bit in the Simcraft Assassin thread here.
RE: Highest DPS Assassin Madness spec/rotation? - Lolth - 03-17-2012 02:15 AM
(03-15-2012 03:17 PM)Thepixel Wrote:(03-15-2012 06:51 AM)Talonwk9 Wrote: Refresh death field, discharge and Unearthed Knowledge with Shock. Make sure to avoid clipping your discharge otherwise you will lose a tick of damage each rotation.
You're close, but remove Shock and UK, then watch the magic happen. We talk about it for a bit in the Simcraft Assassin thread here.
Could you please give us the spec pixel?