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RE: Primer on calculating DPS stat weights - RuQu - 02-14-2012 08:22 AM
(02-13-2012 03:46 AM)LagunaD Wrote:(02-11-2012 06:05 AM)CaseyTheRetard Wrote: Perhaps you should consider writing modules for the ACs that interest you for simulationcraft-SWTOR? I hear those guys are always looking for more knowledgeable people.</shamelessplug>
Well, I downloaded the code and looked through it. It appears to be 99% WoW code, with a tiny bit of Consular/Sorceror stuff hacked in. No offense to the folks who did the hacking, and the WoW simulator is nice, but it seems like a shaky foundation to build on for TOR, considering that a huge fraction of the code is (or should be) dead.
I created a spreadsheet (as many of us have done) for Combat Medics.
That got unwieldy, so I converted it to C++.
I also converted my tank mitigation spreadsheets.
I posted the program on Google Projects for the Combat Medic community to use. It has a GUI and is expandable to cover rotations for other specs and trees, if people would like to assist with their classes/trees of expertise.
The Project can be found here.
I should add that I make mention of Sithwarrior.com, Kor, and LagunaD as the source of most of the equations that I used. It is in a recognition section as a thank you and does not make any claim of endorsement, but if you would prefer I remove it, just say so.
RE: Primer on calculating DPS stat weights - thrakkemarn - 02-14-2012 09:02 AM
Hope this is an ok place to ask this question - but is there any simple way of calculating how much crit/surge is equal to a given amount of power?
Am I correct that you can take the amount of critical chance your crit rating gives you and multiply that by the amount of critical multiplier your surge rating gives you to find out the rough damage increase of crit/surge?
I'm not really sure how/if there's an easy way to find a % damage increase from power.
Sorry if this is in the wrong place!
p.s. First post, recently discovered these forums and am SUPER grateful for all the awesome info on here!
RE: Primer on calculating DPS stat weights - RuQu - 02-14-2012 09:15 AM
Short answer, you can't compare them that way.
Power scales linearly, 1 Power is always 0.23 Bonus Damage.
Surge and Crit both scale logarithmically, and are worth less the more you get.
You also have to think about how the different abilities scale. For instance, Medical Probe heals for 2.72 more for every point of Bonus Healing, but Hammer Shot only heals for 1 more, and Adv Med Probe heals for about 2.4 more or so. So, then you need to know how often you use each one.
Resolving that harder question is what we are all up to here.
*edit* corrected mistake in power to damage ratio.
RE: Primer on calculating DPS stat weights - Kaedis - 02-14-2012 09:19 AM
It can get pretty hairy, Thrakkemarn, mostly due to skills affecting abilities and differing ability usage. For a first-order calculation, the basic procedure is to model the damage increase for each ability from X amount additional Crit or Surge, then take a weighted average of the damage increases from each ability based on the percentage of your total damage each ability is contributing. You then reverse engineer the calculations for damage increase from Power, using the weighted average you obtained from Crit/Surge, to gain the equivalent amount of Power. However, note that due to the DR equations on Crit and Surge, and the potential variance in your damage-by-ability breakdown, this isn't perfectly accurate, and gets less accurate the larger the stat delta you're using.
Edit: 0.23, RoQu. 0.2 is your primary stat.
RE: Primer on calculating DPS stat weights - LagunaD - 02-14-2012 10:11 AM
There's an even rougher way than Kor's method.
The typical damage coefficient for most abilities is about 2. That means (with buffs) 30 points of power add about 7.5 to your bonus damage, and 15 to the base damage of an average attack (with coefficient ~2).
A typical attack with a coefficient of about 2 should do about 1500 damage. So 30 points of power add something like +1%. This agrees pretty well with the more detailed calculation in my Carnage spreadsheet.
30 points of Critical Rating or Surge will get you something like +1-1.5% Critical Chance, or about +2-3% Surge. Depending on how much of each you already have, it will probably work out to slightly less than +1%.
Within the accuracy of this type of calculation, you are likely to find all stats are roughly equal in value. If you get important buffs/procs from criticals, Critical Rating will likely be favored. If not, Power is probably the safest choice unless you do a more careful calculation or simulation.
RE: Primer on calculating DPS stat weights - thrakkemarn - 02-15-2012 09:16 AM
Thanks for the replies guys! I did not realize different abilities used different coefficients, but discovered that the hard way today looking at tooltips with different amounts of gear on. It makes it very hard to figure this all out! I guess I could just do as Kor says and model each ability ... but then Bioware goes and changes how much Surge Rating adds meaning everything has to be re-calculated.
Still, this gives me a MUCH better idea than I had before, so at least I can do some rough comparisons. This ceased being purely theoretical for me because I'm at a point where I am getting extra sets of Columi/Rakata gear and can basically re-slot mods and enhancements to optimize stats, so at least now I have something to base it on.
RE: Primer on calculating DPS stat weights - Ghorock - 02-17-2012 04:01 AM
I have a feeling this is the wrong place to be posing this but ill go for it. (sorry if it is)
Hello SithWarrior friends! Ghorock here, I'm in the middle of a project to figure out the BiS Gear for Pvp Concealment Operatives. I have also come up with the best Mod and Enhnacement for an Op. So when i'm comparing items I only use the base stats of an item considering no matter which one i choose of the two they will have the same mods and enhancements. My problem is seeing whether a certain PvE piece is better than a PvP piece, I know the PvE stats are higher but im having trouble calculating in the Expertise to see what comes out ahead. If anyone could possibly help me out on this I would be greatly appreciated and include your name in the guide I am writing for Operatives! I will link the stats I already have written down and we can go from there, feel free to post or even message me.
Thanks, Ghorock.
BiS Mod = Rakata/Bm Field Tech Helm and or Gloves.
BiS Enhance = Columi/Champion Enforcer Helm and or Gloves.
For the BiS Gear list I would like to have the minimum of 2 Rakata set for the bonus.
Also people are saying expertise drops after about 500, maybe I have to add this in to my numbers? This is where I am lost.
Some gear is champion over battlmaster because it has power which is better than crit.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Alut_V-PRO3edENMclk2d0ZNQk1FcjNIMnFXcjJseFE#gid=0
RE: Primer on calculating DPS stat weights - kray - 02-23-2012 11:35 AM
Howdy LagunaD and company. I've got a Powertech DPS simulator I've been working on, and one of the main focuses for me is to be able to spit out stat weights. Unfortunately, stat weights are not something I've done before on my own, I've always had someone else's tool to use. So let me see if I have the general concept down:
X = appropriate number to reduce variance
Step 1 - Run the simulation X times with current stats
Step 2 - Run the simulation X times with an addition of Y to each stat
Step 3 - Take the output from these simulations, calculate the change in DPS per point
The problem I run into here is the diminishing return that every stat faces, and what exactly my Y should be. I've come up with a few options, and I'd like to get some input.
Option A) Create a graph for the next 100 points for each stat. This would require an obscene amount of calculation in order to get enough data points, unless there's a way I can cheat it with math?
Option B) Create a "Next 5/25/50" chart, essentially the same as Option A but with only 3 data points per stat, as opposed to 10+.
Option C) Instead of using a difference in points for each sim, increase stats by a percentage (1% crit, 1% surge, etc), then using current stat values determine how many points it would take to achieve that change, and go from there.
Truth be told, I'm just not sure how to accurately display what stat weights are when the relative value of stats is constantly in flux. Any help?
RE: Primer on calculating DPS stat weights - Kaedis - 02-23-2012 01:37 PM
The best way is generally the instantaneous stat weight, which can be calculated as the dps change when y = 1, y=-1, or averaging the two. The gives the best idea of current stat weights.
RE: Primer on calculating DPS stat weights - LagunaD - 02-23-2012 03:15 PM
(02-23-2012 01:37 PM)Kor Wrote: The best way is generally the instantaneous stat weight, which can be calculated as the dps change when y = 1, y=-1, or averaging the two. The gives the best idea of current stat weights.
The problem is that changing a stat by one unit results in a DPS change so small that the simulation time required to isolate it from statistical noise becomes extremely large.
If you want your stat weights accurate to 1%, you need to measure a tiny difference between two large numbers to 1%, when the difference itself is less than 1%.
1 point of (say) Power increases your DPS by (roughly) +0.33. So you need to measure the difference between (say) 1500 and 1500.33 to 1%, which means measuring the DPS at each to the two points to within +/- 0.002 or so - roughly one part in a million...
The only practical way I can think of to do this is the obvious one described by Kray: pick the smallest increment large enough to make a statistically distinguishable difference in the DPS.
I do think it's better to use +x and -x, as Kor suggests. Calling the weight
w = (y(+x) - y(-x)) / (2*x)
is equivalent to drawing a quadratic curve through the points (-x,0,+x) and finding the slope at 0. So really you have managed to take into account (through cancellation) second-order effects.