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[Archive] Sith Sorcerer/Jedi Sage Lightning/Telekinetics Compendium - Masterkiller - 07-02-2011 12:36 AM
I found this at gamebreaker.tv where MikeB answered a question about where the points were spec’d in the SI that he played.
“I couldn’t tell you specifically where my points were except that they were in the “middle tree,” and that build of skill trees has been scrapped it can mean anything right now, haha. I can tell you from experience that 10 points in a tree that can take 30-40 isnt going to make a huge difference in performance. ”
So this makes sense about what you are saying in reference to everything having been reworked. Great read, thanks.
- Anubis Black - 07-02-2011 12:36 AM
masterkiller said:
I found this at gamebreaker.tv where MikeB answered a question about where the points were spec’d in the SI that he played.“I couldn’t tell you specifically where my points were except that they were in the “middle tree,” and that build of skill trees has been scrapped it can mean anything right now, haha. I can tell you from experience that 10 points in a tree that can take 30-40 isnt going to make a huge difference in performance. ”So this makes sense about what you are saying in reference to everything having been reworked. Great read, thanks.
Nice find. It seems he spent his talent points in the "Madness" tree which has been then revamped. Given he did not play past level 20 and was mostly focused on PvP there is quite some insight in his statements. However, his point about 10 points in a 30- 40 points talent tree not making a difference in performance does not make sense. Committing 25% of your talent budget surely does have an impact on your DPS. Otherwise it would just be poor talent tree design. Most intriguing is:
"[...] I would compare the Sith Inquisitor to a Balance spec'd Druid in WoW.. very very close to that to be honest."
It seems that my DoT theory isn't that far off. But we don't really have enough information to deduce that as Mike himself admits the talent trees have been reworked or even scrapped. He also points out that the 1.5sec. GCD cannot be reduced through abilities or talents. Which makes sense since most of the abilities we have seen so far are instant.
RE: Sith Sorcerer DPS Compendium - Ysme - 07-31-2011 10:50 PM
Nice breakdown and resource Anubis..
Thanks for putting this together and posting. I'll point my Sorc friends in this direction as they're sure to be interested.
RE: Sith Sorcerer DPS Compendium - Masterkiller - 07-31-2011 11:05 PM
He's also got a great article on material we saw from E3 here: http://www.sithwarrior.com/2011/06/e3-tatooine-walkthrough-dissection-sorcerer-abilities/
RE: Sith Sorcerer DPS Compendium - Anubis Black - 07-31-2011 11:42 PM
This article will be reworked now that new information about talents is available. "Talents" and "Abilities and Rotation" sections will be heavily modified. Most of the info there is outdated or incomplete.
Talent dissection - Anubis Black - 07-31-2011 11:56 PM
Sith Sorcerer Talents
The following is a preliminary analysis of the Sith Sorcerer talent trees from the perspective of a raiding Lightning DPS Sorc.
As previously deduced at maximum level (50) we will have 41 talent points to distribute. To proceed from one talent tier to the next, 5 talent points per tier must be spent. I.e. to be able to take a talent in tier 4 of a given talent tree, you must have spent 15 talent points in the tree. As seen in the talent trees available on the net, the last talent in each tree is in tier 7, requiring 30 points to be distributed in the tree, totaling 31 (with the 1 point ultimate talent). This leaves us with a maximum of 10 points to spend in other trees and thus makes it impossible to choose a talent in a tier higher than 2. So let’s start with the easy analysis of the first two tiers in Madness and Corruption.
Madness
Torment- Thrash and Raze are Assassin abilities and this talent only benefits Shock from a Sorc perspective. Reducing Shock’s Force cost by 6 is alright, but not a definite necessity in a min/max build.
Clacify- FL has a place in our rotation, as it is cast on proc and thus increasing its crit chance and damage makes this talent useful.
Will of the Sith- Absolutely mandatory talent. 6% Willpower total, gives the highest DPS increase per point out of all talents in all trees.
Exploitive Strikes- Clearly a talent that helps a hybrid or an Assassin deciding to spend points in the tree. This talent has no place in a cookie- cutter Sorc DPS spec.
Sith Efficacy- Amazing talent. The pushback reduction to CrD is invaluable and assuming at 3/3 it gives 100% of restoring 1% Force with FL, this talent is a great place to spend points in.
Chain Shock- Shock is only cast on the move when no procs are up, so this talent can be a DPS boost, but there are better options elsewhere.
Parasitism- This talent might suit a Madness or a PvP specced Sorc better. It relies on the heavy use of DoTs and it has its uses with Affliction and Crushing Darkness, but it is not a necessity.
Oppressing Force- A PvP/CC- strengthening talent. No place in a min/max Sorc DPS build.
Corruption
Dark Mending- Healing talent, not useful.
Seeping Darkness- A talent that increases the crit chance of DoTs. More suitable to a Madness Sorc, but since Affl and CrD play a big role in our rotation, it is a DPS boost worth spending points in.
Haunting Presence- Healing talent, not useful.
Lucidity- Healing talent, not useful.
Backlash- PvP talent, not useful.
Empty Body- Utility talent, possibly situational.
Force Suffusion- Increases the damage of AoE abilities. Has uses in heavy AoE fights.
Now on to the main tree, where the majority of the points will be distributed.
Lightning
Electric Induction- Depends whether Force will or will not be an issue. Assuming long fights and Force problems, this will be a great talent to reduce Force consumption.
Reserves- Almost identical as above. Better than the previous as it increases the total pool by 20% when maxed and yields a higher benefit.
Convection- A must have talent. 6% damage increase on 4 abilities that play a big part in our DPS.
Lightning Spire- A great optional talent. Not mathematically a DPS boost, but practically quite useful.
Exsanguinate- Another mandatory talent. Increases the duration of our strongest DoT- Affliction.
Subversion- Great talent for reducing pushback on some of our most used abilities. Additionally, increasing Force regen rate by 30% at 3 stacks is indirectly an increase in our damage output through sustainability. Highly recommended.
Lightning Barrier- Utility talent. Situational.
Lightning Effusion- An amazing talent. If 2/2 gives 100% chance on crit to reduce the Force cost of the next two abilities by 100% it will be changed fast. It’s just not balanced. At 50% Force reduction it is still great.
Chain Lightning- Necessary to pick up better talents and a strong ability in general.
Lightning Barrage- Brilliant talent, making FL cast on proc and doubling its damage output.
Electric Bindings- PvP talent, not useful.
Lightning Storm- Not only a prerequisite talent for better talents, but increases the DPS of CL, making it instant and cast on proc similar to Lightning Barrage.
Ethereality- Utility talent, situational.
Suppression- PvP talent, not useful.
Forked Lightning- Great boost to LS and CL’s damage and additionally unlocks Conduction.
Conduction- If maxed out Forked Lightning has only 30% chance to proc, then keeping 3 stacks of this up might prove a challenging task, yet a massive damage increase.
Polarity Shift- First hint at increasing cast rate (haste), a necessary prerequisite and possibly the highest DPS CD we get.
Reverberating Force- Another must have talent. No argumentation needed.
Thundering Blast- The pinnacle of the tree, the ultimate ability. All the other talents are picked up to get this one. Time will tell if it will prove to be as high a DPS increase as assumed.
New talent calculator thanks to Sennin here: http://www.war-tools.com/t73177.html
RE: Sith Sorcerer DPS Compendium - Thauglor - 08-01-2011 05:43 AM
Excellent post. I look forward to following it closely
RE: Talent dissection - Caketown - 08-01-2011 08:13 AM
I must say, If I was going to go PvE DPS sorc, this is definitely the talents I would go.
If PvP I would look into talents such as ethereality and electric bindings, but having little hard time deciding which I would drop. I would prob look into dropping conduction and electric induction (depending how much willpower stuff costs, etc.)
For simplicity of this post I will post these:
I got them at Betacake
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-sIUtLxMk9Hs/TjC7g5DHk0I/AAAAAAAABi8/LFT1a3z5oY0/s1600/test3+copy.png
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Yra26JXzOw0/TjC7hs-ndkI/AAAAAAAABjA/IkuGK-UgXLk/s1600/test1.png
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-KD2c-MV6ThU/TjC7X_2aMEI/AAAAAAAABi4/FuJMHdtga8g/s1600/test2.jpg
RE: Talent dissection - metaspy - 08-01-2011 09:54 AM
I have to say that this is the best dissection I have come across so far!
I personally am going to be a healer... Perhaps I should do something along this lines for my heal spec...
Sorc DPS Abilities Dissection - Anubis Black - 08-01-2011 10:11 PM
Following the talents dissection, here are some thoughts on the abilities and a rotation that can be used for maximum DPS.
Let’s start with the two DoTs:
Affliction is definitely a huge part of our rotation. Initial theorycrafting showed it to be the highest DPCT ability of the analyzed ones and the talents concur. Exsanguinate increases its duration with 6 seconds, making it a 21sec. DoT. Lightning Barrage requires Affliction crits to make FL cast on proc and double its damage. Reverberating Force increases its critical strike damage by 50% and Thundering Blast requires Affliction to be up in order to crit every time it’s used. All of these factors tell us Affliction has to be up all the time and keeping 100% uptime will be a big part of our DPS. The question about Seeping Darkness remains though. Will the extra 6% crit chance boost our DPS enough to be a talent worth picking up? After all, Affliction crits give us LBFL which should be one of our highest DPS boosts.
Crushing Darkness on the other hand raises some questions. Why are there no talents that enhance this ability if we are to use it? Convection increases its damage by 6%, yet it is in tier 1, available to a Madness Sorc, which will be DoT based. Sith Efficacy is in the Madness tree and even if we do pick it up it raises the question if it was intentional to enhance CrD from a different tree. If in fact we should be using CrD, it has a place immediately after Affliction, since our preliminary analysis showed it has the second highest DPCT.
Following are our direct damage abilities and procs:
Force Lightning was thought to be a crucial part of our DPS, yet the talents seem to imply otherwise. Not a single talent enhances FL’s damage in the Lightning tree. LB changes its functionality in a way, since it might not be a good idea to cast FL if LB is not up. The Madness tree is where FL starts to get improvements. So this raises the question if it is more important to a hybrid. But 5% damage increase is far from negligible, it’s a massive boost. And Sith Efficacy (probably going to get changed as already stated) makes FL a Force regen ability. Which gives a further functionality and now FL might be used not only on LB proc, but also when we are low on Force.
Thundering Blast seems to be a no- brainer at first glance. It is the last talent in the tree and it is improved by Convection, Subversion and Reverberating Force. Since 100% uptime of Affliction is crucial to our DPS, TB should be used on CD. Further analysis is needed to prove/disprove this.
Shock needs more analysis as well. There are no talents that enhance it and this suggest it’s not going to fit in our rotation. It is improved in the Madness tree and possibly will have uses in a hybrid spec. At this point it seems to be a good idea to use only on the move, as it is instant.
Now we approach the two abilities that will according to the talents play the highest role of our DPS.
Lightning Strike proved to be next to useless in our initial theorycrafting analysis. Now with the introduction of the talents, the ability looks much stronger. Convection and Subversion enhance it as previously stated and Lightning Storm gives it a 30% chance to make CL instant and cost 0 Force. But what really stands out is Forked Lightning in conjunction with Conduction. The first boosts LS’s damage and the latter makes it alongside CL the most important ability in our rotation. LS should be cast until three stacks of Conduction are achieved and they need to be kept up to boost our damage by 3%. The random element (i.e. 30% chance on cast) makes it rather hard to keep up and introduces an interesting twist to a rather straightforward concept. We need to wait and see how it will play out.
Chain Lightning is the ability that is buffed the most out of all abilities at hand through the talents in the Lightning tree. Convection, Subversion and Reverberating Force enhance it similarly to TB. Lightning Storm makes it instant and with 0 Force cost, thus cast on proc. Forked Lightning gives it a chance to proc a second CL for 30% of the damage and similar to LS in conjunction with Conduction grants a 3% damage boost if used to keep up Conduction stacks. The question remains why would an AoE (not exactly AoE, but affecting multiple targets) ability would be used in a single target DPS rotation, however it seems to be beneficial, so better leave that question to people with ruined immersions. A better question is if hard- casting CL is ever a good idea. Again, time will tell.
Next up are buffs and CDs:
Polarity Shift has 1min. CD and Recklessness has 1min. 30sec. CD. This means each of them should be used when the CD is up, stacking them at the start of a fight and consecutively every 3min. I.e.
Time: 0:00m PS + R
Time: 1:00m PS
Time: 1:30m R
Time: 2:00m PS
Time: 3:00m PS + R
Alternatively, in encounters with specific gimmicks (e.g. a debuff on the boss, a phase of vulnerability, burn phases) they should be used accordingly. Also, Recklessness should always be popped before PS to not lose a GCD of increased casting speed if it were the other way around.
Mark of Power should be up before every fight and rebuffed each time it falls off/you die.
It goes without saying that you should use Static Barrier and Force Speed where the situation arises, as well as CC effectively with Whirlwind, Electrocute, Overload (knockback), etc.
Consumption is a neat Life Tap- like ability but the harsh Force regen penalty implies careful use. More analysis needed on this.
Priority list:
Affliction
Crushing Darkness
Thundering Blast
Lightning Barrage Force Lightning
Lightning Storm Chain Lightning
Lightning Strike
Iteration after iteration the above will be refined. Now it is just a rough sketch. More theorycrafting needs to be done once we have more data to answer some questions:
Is CrD worth casting and if yes, is it really that high on the priority list?
Does TB provide high enough DPS to warrant its place ahead of LBFL or LSmCL?
Is LBFL higher priority than LSmCL?
Does LSmCL provide enough DPS to be higher on the priority list?
Shouldn’t we start with LS spam to get 3 stacks of Conduction fast?
Without the proper numbers, we can only guess. Also note that hard- casting CL or FL are not on the list, as they provide a much lower damage output without the respective procs.
But enough speculation. Here’s to hoping we get more info soon.